Keto Dog Health And Dog Food With Rachel Fusaro (0:02)

• Ian Billinghurst and Rob Ryan Discuss Rachel Fusaro's Talk on Keto Dog Health and Diet

Canine Health And Nutrition With A Passionate Dog Mom (2:24)

• Billinghurst Explores If the Keto Diet May Cure Cancer as a Metabolic Illness, Not Merely a Hereditary One
• Passionate Pet Parent Turned Professional Dog Mom Delivers Expert Insights and Accessible Information for Pet Lovers
• The Speaker Uses Their Knowledge of Dogs and Nutrition to Produce Relevant Information

Pet Nutrition And Seeking Second Opinions From Veterinarians (7:57)

• Veterinarians Should Respect Consumers' Concerns Regarding Pet Nutrition Since They Are Typically The Most Knowledgeable Sources
• Rachel Fusaro Emphasizes Respect and Open Communication Throughout Her Experience with Veterinarians and Seeking Second Views
• Ian Billinghurst Acknowledges the Risks of Providing a "Poison Chalice" Diet But Advises Seeking Several Recommendations for Optimal Pet Care

Feeding Dogs And The Impact Of Kibble On Their Health (12:24)

• According to Dr. Ian Billinghurst, the Pet Food Industry and Vets Are Unaware of the Nutritional Demands of Dogs, Emphasizing the Need for a Balanced Diet of Natural Foods for Their Health
• He Recommends Pet Owners Seek Out a Vet Who Prioritizes Adequate Nutrition for Dogs Rather Than Depending on Kibble or Processed Diets
• Ian Billinghurst Claims That High-Carbohydrate Meals for Dogs Might Cause Metabolic Harm and Raise Illness Risk Due to Their Unadapted Bodies
• He Believes the Veterinary Profession Perpetuates the Issue by Encouraging High-Carbohydrate Diets and Treating Related Health Concerns, Establishing a Successful Business Model

Pet Food Industry And Its Impact On Pets' Health (17:37)

• Veterinarians Endorse Ultra-Processed Pet Foods Despite Health Risks
• Ian Billinghurst Emphasizes the Significance of Educating Pet Owners and Vets about Raw Feeding Advantages for Dogs
• A Veterinarian Called Dr. Jane Describes Her Story of First Opposing Raw Feeding But Now Writing About It After Discovering Its Advantages

Feeding Dogs Real Food For Optimal Health (21:51)

• Ian Billinghurst emphasizes the importance of feeding dogs real food, not nutrients, for optimal health.
• Ian Billinghurst emphasizes the importance of feeding dogs real food, rather than relying on supplements or vitamins, to ensure they receive the necessary nutrients for optimal health.
• He highlights the importance of considering the context of a whole diet based on evolutionary normalities rather than focusing solely on individual nutrients or deficiencies.

Feeding dogs real food for optimal health (27:20)

• Ian Billinghurst Discusses the Longevity of Dogs Without Typical Diets, Including Cases of Australian Bush Dogs Surviving into Their 20s
• Research by Rachel Fusaro Emphasizes the Significance of Nutritional Bioavailability and Chronological Aging in Dog Treats
• Rachel Fusaro Emphasizes the Necessity of Feeding Dogs with Actual Food Rather Than Manufactured Pet Food
• Ian Billinghurst Emphasizes the Need for a Balanced Diet for Dogs and the Risks of Constant Treats

The Meaning And Importance Of "Complete And Balanced" In Pet Food (32:15)

• Rachel Fusaro Questions the Complete and Balanced Pet Food, Arguing That People and Dogs May Not Need It
• Ian Billinghurst Thinks That Dogs May Have Evolved to Consume an Uneven Diet and That Full and Balanced May Harm Them

Evolution, Nutrition, And The Impact Of Commercial Pet Food On Dogs' Health (35:17)

• Billinghurst and Rachel Fusaro Discuss the Concept of Comprehensive and Balanced Pet Food by Discussing How Evolution Has Influenced Canine Nutrition
• Veterinarian Emphasizes Health Concerns of Excessive Pet Diets, Such as All-Fish and All-Meat
• Ian Billinghurst Claims That the Introduction of Manufactured Pet Food Has Led to the Rise of Complicated Degenerative Disorders in Australia

Feeding Dogs A Balanced Diet With Raw Meaty Bones And Fermented Foods (41:19)

• Ian Billinghurst Promotes Beginning with Raw Meaty Bones, Veggies, and Internal Organs for Dogs While Noting the Difficulties of Shifting from Kibble
• Citing the Nutritious Significance of Feces, He Underlines the Need to Include It in a Pet's Diet
• Ian Billinghurst Emphasizes the Significance of Fermented Foods and Probiotics in a Dog's Diet, Noting Their High Nutritional Content and Possible Health Advantages
• Billinghurst Advises Substituting Kelp, Alfalfa, and Fish Oil for Vital Fatty Acids and Trace Minerals in a Raw, Meaty Bone-Based Diet

Dog Nutrition And Anti-Cancer Properties Of Raw Meaty Bones (47:01)

• Rachel Fusaro Explores Her Experience with Their 13-Year-Old Labrador Eating Raw Meaty Bones and How It Improved Their Health, Including the Dog's Desire to Eat Their Feces
• Ian Billinghurst Discusses the Value of Bones in a Dog's Diet, Including Their Anti-Cancer Effects and How They Balance a Dog's Calcium and Phosphorus Levels

Gut Health And Bacteria In Dogs (50:05)

• Ian Billinghurst Highlights the Advantages of Raw Meaty Bones in Dogs for Dental Health and Gastrointestinal Concerns
• According to Dr. Ian Billinghurst, People, and Dogs Have a Symbiotic Connection with Bacteria, and Our Immune Systems Are Intended to Coexist with These Microbes
• He Underlines the Necessity of Not Sterilizing Dog Food Since This Might Disturb the Microbial Balance and Lead to Health Concerns
• Ian Billinghurst Discusses How Dogs' Instinct to Consume Excrement Evolved to Keep Their Microbiome Healthy.

Raw Dog Food And Nutrition With Dr. Ian Billinghurst (55:49)

• Rachel Fusaro Admires Dr. Billinghurst's Abundance of Knowledge and Wants to Learn from Him
• Billinghurst Discusses the Ineffectiveness of Including Chopped Veggies in a Dog's Diet
• Ian Billinghurst Discusses the Significance of Canine Nutrition and the Function of Stomach Contents in a Dog's Diet
• Billinghurst and Rachel Fusaro Explore the Advantages of Tripe and Other Intestinal Contents as a Prebiotic and Probiotic for Dogs

Keto Dog Health And Dog Food With Rachel Fusaro (0:02)

Rob Ryan  00:02

Hey, everybody. I am so happy to be with you guys. Today, we're here live, and we have an exceptional guest. And it looks like I'm a little frozen. I hope that's not the case. With everybody seeing me, I hope you guys can see me just fine. Let's see here. I'm going to bring on Ian and let's see if that's what he sees.

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  00:42

Good morning, Rob, and everybody. You are freezing. Yeah.

Rob Ryan  00:48

Okay, so how about we do this? I'll be right back. And we will. Okay, yeah, I'm significantly delayed. Okay, well, it's bound to happen at some point. I'll be right back on.

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  01:09

Well, I was about to say to rob everybody; that didn't matter that much. We can hear his voice, okay? But as he said, we will talk to Rachel Fusaro this morning, and I had the great privilege of talking to her. I was back in Nashville a few, two, or three years ago. Rachel and I had excellent talks about keto dog food. That was the American Holistic Veterinary Medical Association. Conference, we were at a beautiful venue in Nashville. And we had a lovely time; we even went to see Elvis, as mentioned. But Rachel very kindly interviewed me back then. And this morning, we had the great privilege of talking to her. And Rob, there you are again. I was saying it. Your voice is coming across just fine. So that's the critical point. We can hear what you've got to say.

Rob Ryan  02:08

Oh, good. Good, good. We'll bring Rachel on, and then I'm going to go back off and restart my machine, and then you guys will get it, and we'll let you guys get the conversation started. And we'll see if that remedies things. So, without any further ado, let's welcome Rachel Fusaro.

Canine Health And Nutrition With A Passionate Dog Mom (2:24)

Rachel Fusaro  02:24

Hello, everyone. I am so happy to be here.

Rob Ryan  02:28

It's great to have you.

Rachel Fusaro  02:29

 Yeah.

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  02:29

It's good to see you. Again. Rachel was making you back in Nashville. And even better this morning. Well, no. So, no, this morning was better back in Nashville. But it was great to see you. It's good to talk with you.

Rachel Fusaro  02:42

You as well. I'll always remember sitting in your conference room. It was a standing room, with all the veterinarians standing there watching you speak, and everyone was laser-focused and excited to hear what you said. And that was memorable for me. So, I'm excited to connect again.

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  03:01

It was great to talk about; the dots are great to talk about cancer because of what it is. But it was good to talk about the new look at how we should look at cancer as a metabolic disease rather than just a straight genetic disease, something that we can treat metabolically with food, particularly the keto diet. So, we must understand that cancer is not just a death sentence via genetics and not just a death sentence via chemo and radio. We don't have to take out the patient along with the treatment; we can treat it more like a chronic disease. But this morning, we're not here to talk mainly about other things, particularly your work, and focus on you, which means you have a considerable influence out there, which is lovely to see.

Rachel Fusaro  04:00

Yeah, thank you so much. Yeah, I've been. I'm a researched pet parent or a professional dog mom, but I need my background to introduce myself briefly as I have my bachelor's degree in nutrition science; I'll be inhuman. So, I always say I'm a human nutritionist turned professional dog mom. I took what I learned into the canine world and learned of the multiple synergies between humans and canines and that passion for metabolic health, anatomy, and physiology. Chemistry translates well into the canine world and has been a fascinating way to share my learnings from people like yourself and Dr. B. I know what I'm talking about when I say cancer, but I love your book here. I love taking something that I've learned from people much more intelligent than myself and sharing it in really relatable pieces of content on YouTube, Instagram, and TikTok for pet parents, and what I kind of always tell my community is that you come to my platforms. Curious, you come curious, and then you stay informed. And together, we digest pet news, pet health, and pet science, and it's been an incredible journey so far.

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  05:28

Well, I am done. I looked at you on Instagram. And so well, this lady, you are the ultimate pet mom. You love your dogs. And I thought, Mr. Fusero, can I?

Rachel Fusaro  05:53

Yes. Many people ask, you know, is my husband as into dogs as I am? And it's funny because his passions are very separate. He loves our pets but is not in that world like I am. So, I love being able to take concepts I learn and then teach them. Then he'll give me feedback from somebody who could be more versed in nutrition science, for example, and help me make it more digestible for my audience.

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  06:24

So, he's a great sounding board for your work.

Rachel Fusaro  06:27

Yeah, absolutely. It's a lot of fun.

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  06:32

He's also second fiddle to the dogs in your life.

Rachel Fusaro  06:35

Yeah, the truth is that my dogs are, and everyone knows it; my dogs are my priority. And there are a lot of ways. I mean, yes, I love my family and friends, of course, but my dogs—they're my purpose, they're my passion, they're my center. And it's there where I spend my energy and time for the most part. And now, this is what I do full-time, which is a blessing. So they've opened up a lot of doors for me.

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  07:05

And you're opening many doors for people with their knowledge, which is lovely.

Rachel Fusaro  07:11

Yeah, that's what I tried to do. You know, I'm not a veterinarian. I'm not a canine-certified nutritionist. I've thought about going down that road. But I like having that point of separation and leaning on experts like yourself to give that niche information. And I'm not even a certified dog trainer. But those are all the content pieces I share. And people resonate with it. Because I come from the lens of an everyday dog mom, like from one dog mom to the next, this is, you know, how I take care of my dogs. This is how I train my dogs. And I try to come from a nonpolarized and polarizing lens, or they say, Hey, these are the things that work for me.

Pet Nutrition And Seeking Second Opinions From Veterinarians (7:57)

Rachel Fusaro  07:57

Here are some resources to learn more about and apply to what works best for your pet.

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  08:03

That's fabulous. We must look at every angle on every subject and learn from everybody we can. When I was a student, one of our teachers was an American. He was Professor Kirk, and he told us that our clients and our patients would be our best teachers. And he was so wrong. Just by listening to what they had to say to you. Very important. Vets need to listen to what their clients have to say about their dogs because pet moms are the people who know their dogs. And so I always admire mothers because they are the most wonderful people with their human kids or furbabies. After all, they're caring, which is just absolute. Rob your back.

Rachel Fusaro  09:01

Oh, we just lost him again. Yeah, you know, that's a perfect point I'd like to talk a little bit about because one of the most common questions or concerns I get from my community is that they'll follow my videos that talk about at least adding fresh food to the bowl if not feeding an entirely new food diet. Still, when they share that with their veterinarian, they get a lot of pushback. And you know, I get many polarizing messages and emails saying, I'm angry with my vet, or I can't believe my vet would recommend Royal Canin and how I try to approach it. Still, I'd love your feedback because I know I mean your veterinarian, and I know you're experienced in this specifically; you know precisely what you said to work with your vet to share your concerns without judgment with your vet to share resources like your book, for example, or other ones like it with their vet to help educate and, to have an open mind, but also to be confident as the pet parent or pet owner, to seek second opinions. I should share all this with my vet. They don't want to see me as a client anymore, or they don't even want to talk about that aspect of feeding my dog raw food, a fresh diet, or not over-vaccinating. And, you know, I tell them, try to approach it with respect, but always feel competent to seek second and even third opinions and look for integrative or holistic veterinarians as part of building a care team. What are your thoughts on that?

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  10:46

Well, absolutely. I'm seeking a second opinion; there is no question about that. But the other thing you said was to talk to your vet. And now, I used to tell people, Look, you can't blame your vet because this is how your vet was trained. Hello, Rob, you're back. Good to see. You. You can go home if you like.

Rob Ryan  11:13

I can hear you. We're having an internet problem here. So, I'm hearing your conversation, and I'm loving it. So I'll pop off and let you guys go at it. I will try my best to get back on track soon.

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  11:29

Rob, it would be best if you stayed because we lost your voice.

Rachel Fusaro  11:34

Yep. Oh, he's gone. All right, that's fine technology.

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  11:40

Technology, well, we are in different parts of the world. It's amazing. We can chat, and there are people out there listening. So it's all incredible. I used to have to travel for days and months on planes in cramped conditions to do this sort of thing. Now we can. I can be at home. But look, talking to your VIP is most important. I used to say, don't blame me because this is how your vet tried. But most vets now have to be aware that so many people out there are not feeding what I call the poison Chalice, this politically correct food. But it's a poison chalice, which is shocking.

Feeding Dogs And The Impact Of Kibble On Their Health (12:24)

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  12:24

As trained biologists, vets should accept what pet food companies have taught them as they mature as veterinarians. That is terrible. So, with respect, I say to people, now you have to challenge it. And I like that you were confident, and they have to be satisfied with what they're doing, that what they're doing is correct, that their vet needs to be corrected regarding nutrition in recommending the PC food, and that they are faulty. And even if you're leaving your vet, you should say, I believe he should say, Well, I'm going to leave you. I will find a vet who will accept proper food for dogs. But I want you, in the meantime, to think about it. Because you are recommending something equivalent to feeding fast food to our dogs, which is based on carbohydrates and cooked to death, which bears no relevance to what they are designed by evolution to eat, and you should be ashamed to record to recommend that, I say that with respect because you are thinking of an intelligent person. But I have now.

Rachel Fusaro  13:39

What would you say to them? If a client came to you, they couldn't see you as a vet. And their veterinarian told them that well. We recommend kibble because dogs evolved to digest kibble, or we recommend this science-based diet food because there's been so much research behind it. What are some things we could tell clients or pet parents to help them combat that—not in a combative way, but just to be able to speak to it?

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  14:14

The only research that's ever been done is to compare one terrible food with another awful food. I love it. Yeah, they've never come. They've never reached good food—real food—with this dreadful food. So science is all about using something inappropriate to feed our dogs. It doesn't appear to cause damage in the short term, but in the long term, it does. And the problem is that it's never the damage it causes because long-term time is never linked to the cause. And we assume, which makes an ass out of you and me. We believe that it's old age. This is an age. And yes, it's not old age. In chronological terms, we're talking about aging caused by food. And in this case, aging means deterioration. And this food is causing the body to deteriorate. And then, I give a straightforward analogy. Would you put in your brand-new, sparkling car that you paid $100,000 for? For crappy spare parts, the wrong fuel, poor quality fuel, and poor quality lubricants? Now, you wouldn't put in the manufacturer's recommended spare parts. Because you know that if you put the wrong stuff in your car or break down, your dog breaks down for the same reason you're putting in the wrong fuel; metabolically, it's atrocious to feed them all these carbohydrates. And that leads me back to another point. And in answer to your question, this whole point about dogs having evolved now to eat more carbohydrates has not changed their metabolic ability to deal with it. They now produce more amylase to digest carbohydrates so that they can take more poison into their bodies than before. So, this is worse. You're saying now that the dog has evolved an inability to take in more poison and is more damaged because of the increased amylase. So this is not a good thing; that doesn't indicate the dog has evolved in a good way; it simply means that the dog, those dogs that could readily eat this food, reproduce first because of the inflammation. The damage caused by these high blood sugar levels occurs over a long period. So, those animals evolved on high-carbohydrate diets and produced more pups. So those pups could take this in. And now we have a whole group of dogs today that can take in carbohydrates readily, raise their blood sugar, and increase their insulin. And those two things are blood sugar located in products and all that. The high insulin produces inflammation, which drives all these diseases. And we have this fantastic business model where the veterinary profession tells people they must face this poisoned food, and then they can diagnose the problems. They get applauded for it, and they sell it. It's a perfect business model.

Pet Food Industry And Its Impact On Pets' Health (17:37)

Rachel Fusaro  17:37

That's how I describe this kind of big conglomerate: pet food companies; Mars and the oil come in, and they are the most brilliant marketers of all time. Because that's what they've done. They've infiltrated the most influential humans in our health, veterinarians, into these vessels. And I don't mean all those schools, which I know you're familiar with, but many are highly influenced by these big pet food companies, whose priority is bottom-line margin revenues. And the content I share is less about demonizing that, although that gets me heated. But it's more about making pet parents aware, like, yes, you may have veterinarians, vet techs, or other health professionals recommending these ultra-processed kibbles. And I know it's hard to go against that. But I know this is a common saying. Still, it's like, in the veterinarian, professionals are the only health professionals that are constantly right, recommending an ultra-processed food for the dog's entire life. If you think about their client's real life, I mean, with humans, imagine if our primary care physician were to recommend we eat fortified cereal forever because it has all the nutrients needed. That's a little ludicrous. That's my goal: to change that frame of mind. Once you can get away from that, follow what somebody of authority has and think independently. That's when we can push for change as pet parents in voting with what we purchase with our dollars.

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  19:30

You have to empower the pet parents with proper knowledge. That's what it's about. And it's not a conspiracy theory, either, because the vets aren't conspiring in this. Yeah, they are considered ignorant of actual nutrition for pets. And so, even the people who work for the pet food companies, the vast majority, actually believe in what they're doing. And all of this is a massive problem because we need to educate, and the world needs to be educated. And on our topic for years, the only way we can do this is for pet parents to go in and say to the vet, Look, this is my dog. This is my dog. He's 12 years old and doesn't have cancer, arthritis, etc. He's fed raw all his life; you must look at this dog and take it. And it's not just don't knock this off as an anecdotal story. Because, yes, one or two, maybe 10 Dogs is anecdotal. But 1000s of dogs experiencing this is epidemiology. It's a population of animals that are now experiencing these benefits. And the veterinary profession has to look. And I agree. Yeah.

Rachel Fusaro  20:48

When I had a, it was interesting. To make a long story short, I made a video about this. And I had a lot of conventional veterinarians reply and be unhappy about it. But I had one specifically who was heated and said, you know, Royal Canin can save dogs' lives like fresh, raw dog food is unhealthy and unsafe. And I shared some articles, and I shared your content. And I shared a lot of stuff with this event. And she's now flipped the coin. And now she's creating content about fresh foods. And this was over six months. And so, she said she had to do one thing in vet school. This was a while ago, and it was what she had to answer for her to pass an exam in her nutrition class; she had to write down, I want to get her thoughts on, she had to write down that when it comes to pet food, the ingredients don't matter. It's just the nutrients in those ingredients. And she had a tough time wrapping her head around that.

Feeding Dogs Real Food For Optimal Health (21:51)

Rachel Fusaro  21:51

And I've had a vet tech tell me the same thing they had to do since then.

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  21:57

Yes, and I've been speaking very much to this point, that we feed our dogs food, not nutrients. And if we provide the food, they're designed to eat the naturally-follow nutrients. So, our thinking must be food-centered, not nutrient-centered. Because if you feed what a dog is designed to eat, the nutrients will naturally be there. There's been nobody out there teaching dogs to feed and eat nutrients, no matter what form they come in. That's just, and the essential thing is this. How does it work? It works because the homeostatic mechanisms honed by millions of years of evolution are designed to work with real food. They're not designed to work with nutrients incorporated into some base of carbohydrates or some energy format. So it's homeostasis that we depend upon, and those cybernetic mechanisms, the relationship between food, the genetics of the dog, and the pathways, the complicated pathways, the feedback, tools, the safety loops, all those things, they work with real food. And that also means dogs do not require an Excel spreadsheet or a computer to work out their diet. That is, that's not the way it works, that the Excel spreadsheet and that computer are fully incorporated into that dog's DNA.

We now call it epigenetics, nutrigenomics, and all these wonderful new words, but it's always been there; the dog's body works together with real food to derive what nutrients it requires in the form that it needs. And that promotes health. And the balance is achieved so long as you have approximated what that dog was designed to eat. You don't have to look for nutrients. As such, the whole nutrient thing grew out of stuff like Berry Berry and all these early experiences we had with vitamins where we saw that deficiencies were causing terrible diseases. And so, nutrition as a science focuses on lack and feeding just enough to overcome the deficit and ensure that the nutrients we know about are present. And I make a point. When you feed real food, you provide the nutrients we know about, don't know about, and don't yet know as essential. And that happens. The people with the most difficulty getting their heads around this are the professional nutritionists. If they have a V Ph.D. in nutrition, getting this concept through to them is almost impossible because they cannot see it.

Rachel Fusaro  25:05

Yeah. And so, really, what you're saying is beautiful and beautiful. Well said, Dr. B. I can't wait for you to continue making content like this. You will continue to make a significant impression on the world. But you're saying that when we think about feeding our dogs, it's less about making it a science project. It's more about providing them with various foods and less about providing them with nutrients. And by doing this and having a more holistic look into the way we feed them, the foods become more or the nutrients become more bioavailable from the foods versus trying to give a vitamin here or a mineral, and there's that kind of what you're saying,

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  25:47

well, we've got to be careful with this word bio; yes, they're correctly bioavailable. Got it, we got to increase increasing their availability, we are, we are giving them the by feeding them food, the nutrients arrive in the form that the dog, the dog's body can select what it needs, reject what it doesn't need, and it they become appropriately bioavailable. And that's that's the vital point, it's appropriateness. And I made that point about this amylase. The increased amylase we detect in dogs today is because they've been raised on high-carbohydrate diets for generations. So, there's been a selection for the ability to digest carbohydrates by increasing amylase. So that doesn't necessarily augur well for the dog. What is suitable for the dog is that the foods presented as the type of food it's always eaten that conforms to its needs. That way, homeostasis ensures that the real food it takes and what nutrients it requires, even if those nutrients are under, say, AAFCO, NRC, or fatty F levels, it will still take what it needs and not show signs of deficiency. And if there's too much there, as long as it's in real food format, within the context of a whole diet based on evolutionary normalities, it will always take what it needs.

Feeding dogs real food for optimal health (27:20)

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  27:20

That's the way it works. Otherwise, we would have had problems with what will they have been problems, but all those problems have been ironed out by evolution.

Rachel Fusaro  27:29

And is this why sometimes you see dogs? Because I get this question a lot. You'll see some dogs that live to like 19 years old. They didn't necessarily eat a traditional complete and balanced diet in the way that we look at it because that dog biologically was able to get the appropriate nutrients and minerals from the foods that were given from the appropriate bioavailability. A concept you spoke about is that kind of what you're, you're saying.

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  27:56

good is precisely correct. And, you know, in my younger days, when I was dealing with a lot of dogs in the country in the bush of Australia, I'd have dogs come in; they're 1920 years old. And there would be this young family. And you know, the kids would be 1819 20 themselves. I was bawling their eyes out and crying at the end because this dog had been with them all their life. But this dog had just eaten their food off a farm, so it wasn't raw. It had gone out in the paddock and eaten sheep poop, cow poop, and horse poop. And it has lived a life of running around in the open air, touching the earth, doing all these beautiful things. Nobody gave it a second thought. I had yet to see events. But now, suddenly, it's reached its use-by date, when all its biological clocks were shutting down, not because it aged but by being fed lousy food but because simply it had aged chronologically, and it was time for it to go. And this This was this is the way we should all end up. But we don't, including myself, because we tend to eat foods that we might enjoy and that are good for us. In my case, it's

Rachel Fusaro  29:16

That's an interesting point, too, because I'll do a dog treat review where I'll compare a treat full of sugar dies versus a single-ingredient meat tree. And people are like, well, but these are treats they're, they're meant to feed you know, occasionally, you know, just once in a while, but to your point of us as humans, we have the curse and the blessing to be able to eat what we want when we want so we can give it to the cravings. Still, with my dogs, I'm not saying the perfect every time or all the time, but with our dogs, we are their advocate for what they eat, and they don't. They're happy. They're just excited eating little chicken heart versus, you know, a wheat sugar carp field Filtrete. I might give him the benefit of the doubt. So, your comment on that and think of that?

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  30:11

Yes, we control them and their eating habits so that we can do it, and they can enjoy it anyway; they can enjoy real food anyway. Well, you can be sure they don't want it. If they're eating constant traits that are based on sugar and all sorts of chemicals and what have you, that is going to upset their microbiome, and it's going to affect their mentality, it's going to affect every aspect of their health, just as it does for us. And as they get older, it will affect them more and more. And if I can use bad English, it gets better and better. So, things are just going to accelerate as they get older. And yeah, let's not do that to adults; we don't have to. But having said that, a little bit of what they fancy now, and again, doesn't do them any harm either because they can cope with the occasional thing, as long as it doesn't become habitual and then gradually increase. But your point that you've seen dogs that we have never eaten might be described as a perfect diet. But most of the time, they were eating real food. And it could have been more perfectly balanced and certainly needed to be balanced with every meal. That's unnecessary as long as the entire diet contains what it requires over time. And that's real food was just like you and me, they're excellent. And I noticed early on those dogs didn't get cancer too late in life, for example, arthritis.

I mean, I've got I've got a 14-year-old dog. Now she's a cocker spaniel cross with a Cavalier, she's got no arthritis, and she runs like a spring ticket. But she doesn't get processed pet food, and she gets real food. And I never measure it out in any particular way. But I know she gets lots of raw meaty bones, some organ meat, etc. And she gets a bit of our food. And she's just a happy, healthy dog. It's so simple. This is my message. And I hope you're making the same statement that it is simple. It's simple.

The Meaning And Importance Of "Complete And Balanced" In Pet Food (32:14)

Rachel Fusaro  32:14

Well, it is; this is a fascinating topic you bring up and completely balanced. And I've heard you say this before, that we're overcomplicating it, and it is something that I don't talk about often because it is so controversial. But this is a safe space when I think about human nutrition. We never talk about having every meal when we sit down to be complete and balanced. And, like, that's never a conversation. Then, I have registered dietician and nutritionist friends who have children, and I asked them, are you making sure that your children have breakfast, lunch, and dinner? Is every single one complete and balanced human child? I'm saying that dogs, and they look at me like, What do you mean? No, I make sure, you know, throughout the day, they get some fruits, and then I start thinking, or, you know, for the past few years, thinking, then why are we? Why is there this heavy emphasis on complete and balanced in the pet food space? And this is like a vast term on every bag. And everybody's asking about it. And I might get a little shame from this from some of my colleagues. But it's a marketing term. Because there are so many different definitions of what complete balanced is. And that term is turning away a lot of pet parents, and caveat: I'm not condoning feeding a non-complete and balanced meal. I'm curious about this topic. And I know you've spoken about it before, but I'd love more of your thoughts. It's a sensitive one, I know,

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  32:50

your introduction of human parents and their human children is correct. The edit completely applies to the dog world; the dogs are not suddenly different. This, complete and balanced, arises from the commercial necessity to sell a complete and balanced product. But I might also make the point in my lectures, just as we now know that periods of fasting, so not eating at all, are essential and that we don't have to eat three meals a day and we can shorten the interval where we do eat on their dogs are the same. And the dogs are different anyway. And they, in fact, often do better on one meal a day rather than two. Having said all that, if dogs evolved, which is essential, if dogs began to eat a diet that was never complete and balanced, that must confer benefits. In other words, attempting to feed a dog a complete and balanced diet with every meal harms their health and, among other things, exceptionally personal, high carbohydrate levels in the Kundalini inflammation and so on. So this is just my point. And it's based on a fellow called Theodosius Dobzhansky. Have you heard of Theodosius Dobzhansky?

Evolution, Nutrition, And The Impact Of Commercial Pet Food On Dogs' Health (35:17)

Rachel Fusaro  35:17

I haven't, and I'm excited to learn.

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  35:19

He's a Russian, or he was. He's deceased now, but he was a Russian. He was a Ukrainian-born geneticist. When he migrated to America, he had an enormous influence in the 1930s. On the way, we consider evolution and his best and most famous as essential quiet. And I learned about this probably in the last ten years he said this. And so it resonated entirely with how I've been thinking for a long time. Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution. In other words, whatever we have evolved to be. Evolution has designed us this way. So it all goes back to that car analogy. It's designed. So, we intend to have only some meals complete and balanced. So, the commercial paradigm is another feature working against our dogs.

Rachel Fusaro  36:18

That's interesting. And it makes sense. Because if you step back and think about it, dogs and humans are different, but there are a lot of synergies, as we discussed before. And I know I said this earlier, but I've never thought about, oh, is my meal or even my entire day's worth of food for me? Is it complete and balanced? And no, and like I have extensive nutrition training. And that's something that has yet to be considered to your point. It's always been about the upper toxic levels or deficiencies. And so that's, that's interesting to me, but there still is a big, heavy push around, making sure food is complete and balanced within even holistic veterinarians or pet parents. So there's a divide there. Still, I lean more definitely towards kind of your thoughts that overcomplicate it, mainly because I believe there may have been situations where, like, I had one veterinarian say that they didn't like when pet parents said they fed a raw diet because, in their experience, that meant that the pet parent was going to buy some ground beef in the grocery store, throw an egg on it and call it good. So there are extremes that clearly wouldn't have everything. The dog wouldn't be like the bone.

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  37:36

Let's get back to this. As students, we were taught that an all-fish diet would lack thymine. So it will cause a brain problem in Cephalon Malaysia, or I can't even remember the names of the terms now. All liver diets will cause vitamin A excess, and cats will train you to feed them. It takes about five years for this to develop. But they've developed survival that is in the neck on the neck, neck spine, cervical exostoses bony growths, which then joined together, and the cat sits up like a kangaroo and can't move. But it takes years for this to happen. The oily fish lacked vitamins and got pet stay otitis when all their fat became inflamed and sore. So there was a limited number; the only diet caused secondary hyperparathyroidism, which just leached all the calcium out of the bones. So there were these very few simple things that you could do. And then the all-fish diet came from feeding, was mixed in, on fish somewhere, and so on. So these were very extreme diets. And people. The all-meat diet was expected as people thought it might be natural. And the bones, by the way, the bones of that very quickly. However, I recognized that there were very few simple diseases of deficiency that were obvious, easy to diagnose, and easy to treat by changing the diet. And we replace these with a raft of an enormous number of degenerative diseases that are complex in their etiology. They're difficult to diagnose. They're challenging to trade. So what we did by going to this complete and balanced diet was exchange a few simple diseases of excess and deficiency with an enormous range of complex conditions. Epidemiologically speaking, the evidence for this was undeniable. When I was a student in the 1970s. We were told we don't see in Australia all the diseases that we see in America, and I felt as a young vet deficient, I was not going to be because we don't get to see these diseases. And I didn't figure it out, and then it didn't take long once I was in practice because we didn't feed the crappy, politically correct food in Australia; most of the food we felt was wrong. They didn't get periodontal disease because they'd lost the bones. They didn't get all these diseases, and cancer was a rarity. We didn't see any of these orthopedic diseases; hip dysplasia, elbow dysplasia, all that stuff was a rarity, too. But it all changed when we started to import and process pet food and take on this paradigm of complete and balanced nutrition in this commercial form. So epidemiologically, we have seen a shift in Australia. And this was recorded at a conference. And I won't go into that details now. But that was presented to us by Philips, Professor Nick Reed, who went through with me, but he didn't even see it himself. He gave it, but he didn't understand the rationale behind it. And I'm still amazed that, that whole story, we have created this poison Chalice of complete and balanced food. It's all based on commercial necessity. It's got nothing to do with biology. Coleman said it is necessary, and we are causing these problems. And it's all wrong.

Feeding Dogs A Balanced Diet With Raw Meaty Bones And Fermented Foods (41:19)

Rachel Fusaro  41:19

Yeah, it's, it's, and this conversation right here is why I believe one of the big reasons I think I've grown the following that I have, because pet parents, it's so interesting to me, even, you know, thinking about ten years ago, when I first started well, probably seven 810 years ago started creating content around dogs to now, the pet parents seem more researched and more educated and more eager to learn about this than ever before. But at the same time, they seem to be more overwhelmed than ever before. And this conversation is an excellent example of that. Because, too, in my opinion, it goes back to these big pet food companies that are what I call marketing, brilliant marketers, that are spending billions of dollars to convince veterinarians and pet parents that we need to have complete and balanced diets in a specific way. And we need to feed a high-carb diet, etc. It almost feels like an impossible place for a pet parent to be, but if somebody was watching this, I know you've asked this a lot. Still, I plan to use some of this and share what you share, like if you had a pet parent who knows that feeding a kibble today is not optimal, but they're terrified to do anything else because their vets have condemned them. Like what's an excellent first step that you would say for someone in those shoes

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  42:47

Roversi bones, chicken, chicken wings, and legs are a great place to start. I know we've talked about human moms feeding their kids. Yes, you're following some pyramid. So, at the bottom of the pyramid, you've got certain foods that form the basis of the diet, and then you open up now for dogs. At the bottom of a dog, Pim is raw, meaty bones. And without wondering why that's the next one next to so roundabout, 60% of them always recommended this. And this and this is all ages. You can drop that percentage later if you want, but even so, then the next to 15% Lots, vegetables ground up. So they like the kinds of an animal, and the next slide is awful. So, in other words, internal organs, and I don't care whether you call them secreting organs or anything else but kidney, liver and heart or liver, kidney and heart, they're the three vital ones. Still, you can add anything else: their eyeballs, hedge brains, whatever. They can all go into that that makes, and then on top of that is poo.

Rachel Fusaro  43:52

Yeah. I've not heard anybody say

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  43:56

that. So, already bones and crushed veggies in season raw. Overcome it and broke down. Internal organs and then poo. The poo poo I noticed early on in the dogs was coprophagia, which is scientific, and they like to eat too. Whether it's their own or a little dog loves the cat litter box, marvelous Camembert cheese, blue vein shares for them. What does it do? Well, it's bacterial bodies. Bacteria is a living creature. Bacteria are full of vitamins. They're full of essential fatty acids. They're full of top-quality protein. If it's from a herbivore like a horse, a cow, or whatever. It's also got all this excellent fiber in it. So that's prebiotic, and it's because it's got probiotics in it. And that's something we don't feed enough, and that's where I'm involved now with Gussy's Gut making a probiotic food which is fermented vegetables, and a few other things like cheese, which is also fermented food, but What, and dogs require fermented food. And I always tried to pop it in my recommendations with a bit of kefir or yogurt or whatever. Sauerkraut, but some dogs don't like all those things. And some dogs have allergies to dairy. So fermented veggies are great, but the 10% is poo. So we use poo substitutes. So essential fatty acids, so Fish oil has great extra protein, eggs, an excellent first quality protein. What else? Well, the vegetables themselves, the probiotics and prebiotics. So I was throwing kelp and alfalfa because both of these, like now, okay, alfalfa, send down roots deep into the soil about 40 feet and pick up all the minerals that hadn't been leached out. Trace minerals are essential, and these problems are things that we need to learn about or understand why they're crucial. I've seen some papers on this, but that's another story. And the CELT from the sea has all the minerals washed into the sea. And so again, look at simple poo substitutes, feed your dog that way, and base it on Raw, meaty bones because the raw, meaty bone itself is almost a complete diet. And pretty well, most of the time, it is a complete diet. And the other thing is, dogs are scavengers, and they're scavengers, they eat to their corporate logic, but there's lots of bones. So, your straightforward approach is doing a highly complex job working with the cybernetic mechanisms generated by the dog's DNA deep in its genome to produce health. And it's so simple. It's simple in what you do. It's complex to understand. And so it's so complicated, and it's understanding we will never understand it, I don't believe or certainly not, in my lifetime than yours, which will be very long.

Dog Nutrition And Anti-Cancer Properties Of Raw Meaty Bones (47:01)

Rachel Fusaro  47:01

Yeah, frequently is that there's so even in human nutrition, there's so much that we don't know. So part of it is to your initial point earlier on, is as the dog owner, the pet parent. It's partly on us to be somewhat intuitive, and like knowing our dogs knowing how they respond to foods and respond to different diets, and it's interesting, you say poo is part of the pyramid if you will, because my Labrador, he just turned 13 Still doing great like a tiny bit. He's a little sore when we do hikes at the beach hill after the next day. But after that, he's excellent. No one realizes he's 13. But he ate processed kibble until about four or five years old before I learned. And it wasn't until I fed him a raw diet, raw meaty bones, that he started eating his poop. And now we can barely keep them away from it. And it's much of what you said, like he loves it. He loves like, you know, getting, I don't know, his nutrients from it. And so it's interesting, you say that?

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  48:05

Well, good quality vitamin K and B complex. The other thing about we don't, you I can go back to your point, we don't know about nutrition. When I started recommending raw, meaty bones, it was based on a simple observation. This will return to Professor Perky, who taught us to ask our clients where they feed the dogs. I noticed the healthy dogs were fed many raw, meaty bones. I said okay, and I started to analyze why. It had to do with the balance of calcium and phosphorus as the only way to achieve it properly. Or they can do it with veggies, too. That's another story. But there was I said, we're going to work out why the bone is so important over time. I didn't know back then, but I've since learned, for example, that the cartilage and bone, besides providing the elements for the dog's joints, are also anti-cancer and anti-cancer because it's anti-angiogenic. And angiogenesis is the process by which a cancer forms a blood supply. And if a tumor cannot create a blood supply, it cannot grow. So, dogs that ate lots of raw meaty bones that are full of cartilage, we're eating a very anti-cancer diet. Now they're trying to make anti-angiogenic chemicals in the laboratory and feed them to people to stop that because I understand this. But those those things have numerous side effects. And guess what? But it's the patient's cartilage, so nobody wants it; it's there. It's in the food. So when you have your Kentucky Fried Chicken, eat the ends of the cartilage bones; everybody should be doing as I do it because we all have cancer. It's there, but it's in microform. And if it can't get beyond that microform, it will never do any harm? So that's, that's it? We don't know.

Gut Health And Bacteria In Dogs (50:05)

Rachel Fusaro  50:05

Yeah. And you know, it's hard. It's hard to talk about. And I know we're getting close to time. But I do want a 32nd response from you. Because I love feeding raw, meaty bones. And I love recommending them for dental health, but also to people who are just, as you said, starting to add fresh foods, because one comment I get is when they start eating or feeding raw food, video a little bit of the GI upset, which is expected because they're adding actual bacteria in their diet. But I love bare, meaty bones because that bulk bulks up the pool, so they usually have less of that. But sometimes I get the comments, well, my dog's going to get salmonella, or, you know, bones are going to cause a perforation, which I always say, right, that dog's system can handle the potential salmonella. And if anything, it's more of a concern for you and me, and I just washed my hands like I would preparing meat for my family. And when it comes to, you know, getting preparation on with the chicken bone, as long as it's raw, it's typically soft or spongy, or they can crunch it down. And if you're, if you're worried, you can hold it to teach them to chew, but what are some of yours, your type of feedback on that to help others?

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  51:19

Yeah, the bone that's the best way to start a dog, particularly if they have GI issues. If you create a dog on that, they rarely get GI issues. Just place the sour chicken next to the chicken wings. Very, very important. That was something else that I wanted to say. Oh, yes. You mentioned bacteria. Yes, they're covered. Salmonella, E. coli, Listeria, whatever compile it back to. They're all there. We, we up ourselves, they're called eukaryotic as opposed to prokaryotic bacteria. Prokaryotic. Very early. In the evolution of life on earth, there were these elementary cells, bacteria. Archaea are formed from a combination of bacteria and archaea; the bacteria created our mitochondria, the organelle that gives energy. But the point is that we are part bacteria and have lived as organisms with bacteria. So, we have developed an immune system. Now, the immune system is not there to fight the bacteria. It is there to live in harmony with the bacteria. Our dogs must receive salmonella E. coli and compile them back in their food, in small doses, along with all the other, what they call sacrifice, the bacteria that are just usually there that are non-pathogenic. So the immune system looks at this whole group of bacteria and says, seminar, I keep you a little bit in check, that's fine. It is the same with compiler bacteria and Listeria and E. coli. You're this other mob over here, this group of bacteria that will break down the probiotics and cellulose and turn it into short-chain fatty acids, which then feeds the about; we'll let you draw a bit more. And so Doc is designed as we are, our whole gut is designed to work together with these bacteria that live in the microbiome, put in there with whether it's fermented food, or just naturally occurring on the food that's eaten. So important not to sterilize the food for your dog may Gods anyway, so it's there, and our immune system is there not to fight it, but to live in harmony with it. And if one of them becomes obstreperous and starts to rise, the immune system says, Hey, settle down, go back down, occupy your little niche in there. Because we need to find out that even salmonella is doing a job. Referring to our health, we don't know that. If it's there, and the body is working with it, then there has to be a reason. Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution. So it's there for a reason. We don't have to understand it. But we have to work with it and let it happen. So we have to stop stressing out.

Rachel Fusaro  54:12

And not living in fear is what you're saying. Right? And following. Following what is common sense is how I would look at it when it comes to our dogs, and that's incredible. Well,

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  54:27

I have a simple set of pictures I put up for this, and I show a dog licking its backside, looking like it is licking its peanuts or whatever, like drinking out of a toilet bowl and scavenging in the garbage can. That's what dogs do. Why? Because they instinctively know they want to get this microbiome from a sink, and it tastes good. Why does it taste good? Because evolution has designed to lock that taste. In our case, evolution scientists say I'm not sure about that. Reason for that. Because we are a bit different, our immune system is not designed the same as adults; we're very similar because we share a microbiome, but we're not quite the same. But having said that, let me, for example, in one quick human example, some humans eat poo, and they are the Inuits, but only in their native form, when they reindeer poo as a source of fiber. That's when they're eating their traditional diet. And when you switch the Inuit people to the Western diet, they die quickly of cardiovascular disease and diabetes and all those terrible things. But on the high fat, high protein, reindeer poo diet, they live healthy lives; they've probably impeded Genesis most of their life.

Raw Dog Food And Nutrition With Dr. Ian Billinghurst (55:49)

Rachel Fusaro  55:49

That's incredible. Oh, man, we could go on for a long time. Dr. B, I just endlessly.

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  55:54

told me I haven't allowed you to talk.

Rachel Fusaro  55:58

You know what, though? Your wealth of knowledge. Five, I want to learn from you. And I'm so excited to share the things you've shared here today with my community because they've heard me talk. They've heard me talk enough, right? Even on your glassy guts page, like the stuff you share today, it reminds me of marketing in general, where the end-user or viewer has to see something, what, seven times in a row, like back to back to back for it to stick and the way that you communicate, and the way that you almost tell stories. It's fascinating. This is extremely valuable. I'd love this.

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  56:36

Thank you for the opportunity to do it. Because a lot of this stuff has been bubbling away at me for years, and I've watched all this stuff happen on the internet. This is why somebody has to change this.

Rachel Fusaro  56:47

Yeah, they do. They do. And that's going to be that's going to be used. So no, I think this is I think,

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  56:53

As you now tell your people what you learn. Because again, listen to you, they don't listen to an old fogy. But they'll listen to you.

Rachel Fusaro  57:05

You have more, and you have more influence than you realize. So I'll also have you on my page; come on to like my Instagram. And that'll be a fun time if you'd be open to it. Because a lot of the people that follow me are, 95% of them are raw, curious like they want to, and they see the value but are scared. And so they follow me for six to eight months, get confident, and then add some at least fresh foods, if not some raw foods, to their dog's bowl. So it's fun and exciting to watch them grow with me.

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  57:42

Well, let me make one little comment. Adding chopped-up vegetables to your as a topper enhances your dog's diet.

Rachel Fusaro  57:56

Really.

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  57:59

cut, dogs can't digest those big ones.

Rachel Fusaro  58:02

Right, as long as it's cooked, you mean then all your array, as long

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  58:07

as it's crushed, or crushed, down valuable when they become like the gut contents of an animal. And you have to think about again, biology what happens, the herbivore eats the grass, it goes down into its room, and then it brings it up again and chewed and chewed and chewed until it's crushed, that releases the cell wall, the cellulose that could then becomes available as a prebiotic to the dog that might consume that. So, tripe or the gut contents of an atom when it leaves the animal. And the Saudis got the cellulose as a prebiotic. It's called the actual organisms that are on the food, probiotics. And it's got all the insides of each cell or plant cell, the vitamins, the enzymes, the minerals, the fats, all of those are suddenly released and become available. But in large chunks, they're mainly going through undigested. They might make the dog happy when eating; if some dogs like that, they're not doing any significant nutritional value. So again, you have to look at the biological situation and say, what does that dog design do? It is designed to eat gut contents and poo, along with a few other things is a scavenger.

Rachel Fusaro  59:21

Yeah, absolutely. Incredible. Dr. B.

Rob Ryan  59:25

Can you guys hear me? We can. Okay, great. Well, I'm sorry. I couldn't be on; I have been listening. And I love the entire conversation. And Rachel, thank you so much for being with us today. It was it was great. I hope your audience enjoys this talk, too.

Rachel Fusaro  59:46

Absolutely. It has been my honor, and I am excited about it. So, thank you guys again for having me.

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  59:51

Well, thank you for chatting. It's lovely talking to you. You as well.

Rob Ryan  59:58

All right, everybody. Thank you for joining us, too. I am watching on replay, and please see Rachel. I'm sorry for the technical difficulties. You can find her by her name, Rachelfusaro.com, and on her social media at the same handle: Rachelfusaro one word, of course. Thanks so much, Rachel. Have a great day.

Rachel Fusaro  1:00:22

Thank you. Take care. Bye bye

Rachel Fusaro  1:00:37

Okay, do I click out, Rob?

Rob Ryan  1:00:43

Yeah, I'm just trying to end. You can click right out. Thank you just for not always taking care, guys.