Introduction To The Topic (1:30)

• Getting Away from Origin Stories
• What Dr Richard Is Most Interested in Talking About?
• Homeopathy Is Based on Principles of Cures
• How Homeopathy Differs from Conventional Medicine
• Symptom Chronology of Symptoms in a Homeopathic Veterinarian
• Homeopathy is a Physical Science

Homeopathy Vs. Arnica (8:57)

• Chiropractic, Chiropractic and Homeopathy
• Arnica And Other Common Remedies for Chronic Diseases
• The Power of Homeopathy in Acute Situations
• Arnica And How It Works

Homeopathy’s Effectiveness In Treating Acute Conditions (14:35)

• Homeopathy Works Quickly and Amazingly Well in Acute Situations
• Basset Hound Paralyzed with Nux Vomica
• Dilution Of 30 Times In 30 Times
• Shaking Is Important for Healing

The Power Of Homeopathic Medicine (19:47)

• The Importance of Understanding the Physics of Placebos
• The Placebo Effect Is an Effect
• The Power of Homeopathy in Acute Situations
• The Difference Between Western Medicine and Homeopathic Medicine

The Science Behind Homeopathy And Its Benefits (24:55)

• Understanding The Whole of The Homeopathic System
• The Importance of Using Homeopathy in Australia
• The Business of The Veterinary Profession
• The Double-Blind Placebo Model of Parvo
• Young Puppies Are Less Prone to Clinical Disease
• Young Veterinary Students and Young Veterinarians

How To Bring Back The Naturopathic Model? (33:45)

• The Western Medical Model Is a Huge System to Change
• The Need for Naturopathic Colleges
• Animals Today Are Sicker Than Ever Before
• The Incidence of Chronic Diseases Is Higher Today
• Toxins Are Wreaking Havoc on The Body
• Getting Outside Is Powerful Medicine

Why Health Is Simple (40:30)

• The Sun for Vitamin D And Melatonin
• The Number One Health Problem in Homeopathy
• Symptoms Guide the Treatment Of The Disease
• Physical Exam Is Important, But Not Mandatory

Nutrition And Homeopathic Medicine (45:57)

• Importance Of Being Familiar with The Pathologies of The Body
• Nutrition And Homeopathy
• Chronic Problems Go Away with Proper Food and Homeopathy
• Big Pharma and Pet Food Companies

Do We Need To Do A Better Job As Consumers? (51:35)

• Doing A Better Job as Consumers, Not Just as Vets
• Prescription Diets and Vaccines
• Homeopathic Remedy for Scar Tissue
• Having A Good Health Team Is So Important

What Is The Definition Of The Word Doctor? (56:27)

• What The Word Doctor in Latin Means
• The Challenge of Charging for Time and Education
• The Teaching Model of The Western Model
• The Responsibility of The Vet and The Customer

Where To Find Dr. Dym’s Information? (1:01:34)

• The Interconnection Between the Guardian and The Animal
• Honor Where Each Animal Is At
• Dym’s Website, Doctordym.Com
• Dr Dym's Weekly Radio Program on iheartradio

Rob Ryan  00:01

Well, hello, everybody. Good morning. Good afternoon. Good evening; wherever you are in the world, I want to welcome you again to the Gussy's Gut show. And let me bring on my partner at GussysGut.com, Dr. Ian Billinghurst.

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  00:17

Good morning,

 Rob and everybody out there from Down Under. It's great to be here.

Rob Ryan  00:22

Yes. Good morning. And we're going to be bringing on Dr. Michael Dym VDM. But that is the same as DVM, but if you go to U of Penn, where he went—a fantastic school—they give you VDM. So, if anybody has any questions about the title, it's not a typo. That's because he's a veterinary medical doctor.

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  00:49

When you say that, Rob, it sounds like a disease.

Rob Ryan  00:54

Well, it's a great school. I am trying to figure out what they do; they want to be different.

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  00:59

It's an excellent disease to be a vet. Let's put it that way.

Rob Ryan  01:04

Well, without any further ado, a fantastic veterinarian is out of our beautiful state of Florida. He went to Cornell, finished his Doctor of Veterinary Medicine at the University of Pennsylvania, and studied under Pitcairn in homeopathy. He is just a great guy that I've come to know. And I hope you all enjoy the show today. Dr. Michael Dym

Introduction To The Topic (1:30)

Dr. Michael Dym  01:30

Good morning. Good afternoon. Good evening, everybody. It's nice to be here. Right? Yep. It's good to be here.

Rob Ryan  01:38

It's great to have you. Well, let's hop right into it. So we're trying to get away from origin stories—how you got it, you got there—because there's probably plenty of that on the web—about what brought you to today. I want to hop into some of the topics you're most interested in discussing. Let's talk briefly about the type of medicine you're practicing and what you're most interested in. Why?

Dr. Michael Dym  02:08

I am a holistic veterinarian who uses all sorts of natural therapies in her holistic practice, from nutritional to herbal therapies. My passion is more homeopathy, where, as you mentioned, I studied under Dr. Richard Pitcairn starting in 1998 and have been taking continuing education courses with him ever since. And, now, what's known as the Pitcairn Institute of Veterinary Homeopathy? So, I stay current in those various areas and conventional veterinary medicine. And that's what I bring to my practice.

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  02:54

I'm fascinated by homeopathy. Dr. Michael. It's an area that I've never used. Many conventional veterinarians criticize it and claim that it is ineffective. And yet, people like yourself, intelligent and well-educated people, use it effectively. I'll be interested to hear some of the case studies you've worked with and are using homeopathy.

Dr. Michael Dym  03:27

Well, it's a robust system in medicine. It's based upon the principles of cures, where we see patients who present with various symptoms and pathology, and we match the homeopathic remedy to those patients' symptoms, stimulating the body's ability to restore health and balance.

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  03:55

Well, I'm going to press you a little bit more on some examples as we go through because I'm fascinated by this system of medicine, which, to me, was an enormous learning curve, one which my brain was just not able to comprehend or manage, I guess.

Dr. Michael Dym  04:13

Right, right. Well, yeah, got,

Rob Ryan  04:16

Oh, no, sorry. No, I want you to go first.

Dr. Michael Dym  04:19

As I said, it's a very different idea of disease and pathology, where we look at illness on a symptom level, in other words, the patient's symptoms on a mental, emotional, and physical level, or the language of disease. And then, as I said, match a homeopathic remedy to address the totality of the patient's symptoms. And Samuel,

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  04:49

go, then when you say it comes to mind, thank you for that, and I'm sorry to interrupt you. My brain doesn't remember things, either. To inquire later, but this is a medical system that requires investigation using our current scientific techniques, where we use a double-blinded placebo and the same treatment method for half a worth, probably 1000 patients, and see the results. So, this is not amenable to being tested. Is it in that?

Dr. Michael Dym  05:22

No, it's not because,  with our conventional disease model, as you said, the double-blind placebo-controlled study, those are set under particular conditions, and it doesn't look at each patient as an individual. And with homeopathy. Each patient's symptoms are unique, and the remedy or medicine tries to address them. And with Western studies, it's the same system of medicine for everybody. And it either works or it doesn't work.

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  05:58

And really, isn't this the essence of true healing medicine, where you look at the patient as an individual as so necessary?

Dr. Michael Dym  06:08

Yes, it is. And,  as I said, there's, it's, for example, if you look at a skin allergy case that comes in, I mean, everybody's used to that it's a joint presentation, especially here in Florida, where you have an animal that comes in and is chewing its feet, itching, or getting hotspots or ear infections. And all those patients, to give us an example, in the Western model of medicine are treated the same; they're all treated with the same class of drugs and medications. For each patient that comes to the homeopathic veterinarian, we look at not just the skin and ear symptoms but the whole symptom totality of the patient and their symptom tendencies over their entire life, not just what's presenting in front of us. And that's what goes into a homeopathic remedy prescription: that whole chronology of symptoms that a patient presents with from when their puppy or kitten is up until they're offering to you in the conventional and the homeopathic clinic.

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  07:10

I get asked one more question that I will turn back to Rob, which is esoteric. From a purely scientific point of view, homeopathy would have to do with the science of extreme dilution and what happens there. So it's a physical science. Are you aware of any studies in that area?

Dr. Michael Dym  07:38

I don't have any off the top of my head there. They're there. There are plenty of homeopathic studies in the literature. It's an energy system of medicine. In other words, it operates at the level of thinking about science and the patient's physics.

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  07:54

That's when it is that much physics and science. Research into the physics of dilution Yes,

Dr. Michael Dym  08:03

Yes, there is. I need to have those studies with me today. But there are yes, yeah.

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  08:09

So people look into this at a profoundly scientific level, but our modern veterinarian must be made aware of that.

Dr. Michael Dym  08:20

No, they're not. It's kind of like medical school. And in the media,  homeopathy is slammed because it's not based on pharmaceuticals. And it's not a profit-driven system of medicine like Western medicine is. And so there's the brainwashing that occurs to young doctors and young veterinarians and training that homeopathy is, as I said, a voodoo science, a pseudo-science, and nothing can be further from the truth.

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  08:52

That's correct. All right. Rob, I'll return it to you to get that out of my system. Now. That's

Homeopathy Vs. Arnica (8:57)

Rob Ryan  08:57

That's great. Oh, good. It just occurs to me. There are so many of these areas. It's not just homeopathy that's attacked them. I can think of an example I use regularly: chiropractic. There are many doctors, many people, and many intelligent, well-informed people who did it off-handed because they've never tried chiropractic, won't try it, and are wholly discounted. It saved my life many times, made me feel great, and increased the quality of my life. Stop me from walking funny. I can give examples of all kinds. And then homeopathy, which I've used in my and my dog's lives. I can think of a couple of occasions when my veterinarian made a custom homeopathic post-vaccine when my dogs had been vaccinated, and that's some detoxification. Thing. I can't prove that it's done anything. I mean, I'm just trusting my vet. My vet's incredible, but I can tell you that the symptoms go away when I've given my dog things like Arnica when he's limping. I'm not telling him what he's taking; he doesn't know what he's taking. It's about as honest as you can get. All I know is he was limping for one second. I diluted some water, and he drank it. And I usually throw a little olive oil in there. So he wants a drink; it comes in contact with his new mucosal membrane. And there you go. We've also used it a long time ago. I've used Dr. Dym, like sulfur, for some skin issues that sound like something.

Dr. Michael Dym  10:39

That's a primary chronic constitutional remedy and homeopathy, which addresses chronic diseases like skin allergies and itching. Whereas Arnica, I'm glad you brought that up because it distinguishes and addresses acute symptoms of illness, like injuries or trauma. And with critical injuries, acute concussions, and homeopathy, you don't need to be as precise as you have to be with more chronic ailments. And so, with chronic disease, we have to fine-tune our remedies to match that symptom totality. For an injury or trauma, Arnica and other common medications are often used initially. And then the response is dramatic. And,  for people who want to see the power of homeopathy, it's to use it in those acute situations, like injuries and trauma. And the placebo effect goes right out the window. When you see them, you see their excellent responses. I see these injuries on the basketball court,  with the NBA playoffs now, which I like to watch. People fall on the basketball floor, injuring their spinal cord and knees. And I wish they had homeopathic remedies in those locker rooms to allow players to recover more quickly than Western drugs.

Rob Ryan  12:02

So what happens? Let's use Arnica as an example. Because most people have heard of Arnica, many people have heard of Arnica. What happens mechanically? What's the mechanism behind that? Let's bring it down into layman's terms. The body takes it in and says, "Hey, summon, what message happens at the bottom?

Dr. Michael Dym  12:25

Again, the principle of like cures like Arnica, the plan, and its toxic or poisonous form cause injury to healthy patients who would take it. And then, for people or animals with Arnica poisoning symptoms, the remedy acts curatively when prepared. Homeopathically, In other words, where that substance is diluted and shaken, that's called succession, and it's diluted and shaken down to a shallow molecular structure. In other words, they're on an energetic level below what is physical, stimulating a healing response in the patient. And so, it's used, and it's prepared and diluted. It's so fascinating to me, and even to this day, how the more diluted it is, the more powerful the substance is; the opposite of Western medicine, where we're doing in milligrams and looking at toxic drugs and homeopathic remedies the more dilute the substances, the more powerful the ability of the substance to heal. And so you get an acute trauma, like an injury, where a patient has been hit by a car or a fall, and you give a remedy, like Arnica, and the response is often within seconds. It's just amazing. And that's when, again, this is acute prescribing. That's what makes me and others who study homeopathy for the first time believers when you see how rapidly a patient can respond to the correct homeopathic remedy in an acute situation. It's the chronic diseases—the skin allergies, the itching, the chronic diarrhea, the seizure cases—and those cases take much more time and patience to work through the layers of problems those animals have. And then you have to be a lot more patient, but homeopathy works faster than any other drug or medicine for acute diseases. I used to work in an emergency clinic here in South Florida, where we would see, for example, heat strokes, and they would come into the clinic.

Homeopathy’s Effectiveness In Treating Acute Conditions (14:35)

Dr. Michael Dym  14:35

And they'd have 107, 100 a temperature, and a bulldog that breeds with problems breathing. I would give you a dose of the homeopathic remedy Bella Donna and its high potency, and you repeat it every few minutes. When my technician would get the IV catheter in, the temperature was from 108 to 102 before she even had a chance to get the IV fluid going. So when we have these acute situations, homeopathy works unbelievably quickly and amazingly well. Wow. I had a case you're talking about and brought up case studies, but clinically speaking, based on your clinical experience, nothing beats that in terms of efficacy. I will never forget a case of a basset hound in its lower legs that came into the conventional clinic; I was doing part-time traditional relief work then. The animal came in, paralyzed in his lower legs and without deep pain. I was getting ready to write up the transfer notes to the local neurologist, where an MRI and probable back surgery would be needed to save that animal's lower legs, and suddenly, paralysis came on. So, it wasn't a chronic issue at that time. And I said, You know what? Let's try the high potency of the homeopathic remedy Nux vomica. And we gave that animal a dose of Nux vomica with high potency. My technician had already left the room and was preparing to write up the instructions to get you to know the local directions to the local ER where the neurologist was. We gave, I gave that remedy and a 10 M potency, which is very high potency. Within a minute, the animal started wiggling its toes, and then it jumped off the table and ran out the door. And everybody was amazed at the client, who had no background or knowledge of homeopathy and was just totally amazed. And I said, Wow, that never ceases to amaze me. The tremendous response in an acute situation like that

Rob Ryan  16:53

And weight is way less invasive and cheaper than I mean; why wouldn't you try this before you operate on a spine? $10,000, right?

Dr. Michael Dym  17:01

Yeah, when surgeries aren't even practical or effective. Usually, a short time later, in the spinal cord segments, a few vertebrae down are diseased similarly. So you're not going to keep operating on a dog repetitively,

Rob Ryan  17:18

Do you know? Wow. Wow. It's amazing. And then you mentioned,  would you say 10? M, as in Mary? Yes. So, because I noticed on my Arnica that I use Arnica Montana, I want to say it's due; I want to say it's 30C. Right, right. Right. So what is that? Is that just the potency, or is the

Dr. Michael Dym  17:41

That's the strength of the medicine; at 30C, one drop of the original plant Arnica is diluted in 99 drops of water 30 times. So, in other words, if you did it manually, you would take one drop of the plant extract, put it in 99 drops of water, shake it, and then put another drop of that solution in 99 drops of water and do that 30 times. Okay, the machine has now completed that. And so when you do it, if you think about it that way and you think about Rob, how dilute that substance is. That's why people in Western medicine say, Oh, my God, there's nothing physically there. There's nothing that can treat the patient. But it's the delusional effect and the shaking; shaking is essential, too. That imparts tremendous energy from the substance into healing. And that's a 30 C diluted one drop in 99 drops of water 30 times at 10 m, which is even more diluted, much more diluted than that. It's one drop of the original substance, in this case, Nux vomica. A poison. It's one drop diluted 99 times ten times. I mean, it's just amazing.

Rob Ryan  19:00

And I will ask one more question about energy or follow one more thought. So, is it a caution?

Dr. Michael Dym  19:08

So, caution, right? That's where you're shaking. Shake.

Rob Ryan  19:11

Yeah. Remember, this is 20 years ago when I first gave some homeopathy, and she said, Shake the bottle and hit it against your shoulder, like 20 times. Is that what I was doing?

Dr. Michael Dym  19:27

You're imparting energy to the medicine and making it more robust. The more you shake it, the stronger it gets. So, it's not just the dilution that brings out the substance's powerful healing ability. It's the shaking as well. That's very, very important. So it's a question. Yes. Yeah.

The Power Of Homeopathic Medicine (19:47)

Dr. Ian Billinghurst, 19:47

All of that does sound like voodoo. But the point here is we need to understand how molecules and their smaller particles work. And even what they are with quarks and all sorts of things. So, at the physics level, this is something that we do not know of, and to discount it by saying it couldn't possibly be because we don't understand it. To my mind, as a scientist, it is ridiculous. It's just something that needs investigating, not thrown away. This is the critical point if something appears to work, and it is working. In this case, it constitutes part of a healing practice where people feel better, animals feel better quickly, and people are physically better. If we can't, we can't because we're not physicists. But we have to accept that this is a natural phenomenon; it's happening. And just because we don't understand it doesn't mean we throw it away. And that's the crazy part about so many scientists now: they're not. I don't call them scientists because they're unwilling to have an open mind. They're technicians who have been trained to be technicians who don't have an open mind. But we have to be willing to look at these things. And that's the critical point. As veterinarians and doctors, if something's working, we have to ask why. And not just discount the so-called placebo effect, because even in and of itself, it is part of the healing process.

Rob Ryan  21:26

The Placebo Effect is an effect.

Dr. Michael Dym  21:30

But our animals aren't aware of a placebo, and they're guardians with their observations; maybe that's a placebo. But I don't know how you could look at a placebo when you see a basset hound with no deep pain in its limits, all of a sudden, get off the table and run out the door and say, Hey, there's nothing wrong with me. I didn't; I'm fine, or an animal in severe heat stroke or trauma who responds so quickly to these medicines, where the symptoms are reversing, is remarkably fast. And that's where people want to experience homeopathy; it's in acute prescribing and acute situations, whether it's acute digestive symptoms, where an animal gets into the trash, food poisoning, or a trauma or an injury. Those are the best places for somebody to see the power of homeopathy and how placebo plays no role in those situations.

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  22:29

Of course, of course, well, it

Rob Ryan  22:31

It occurs to me that this is all—treating like with like—is very similar to oriental medicine that's been around for thousands of years. They'll tell you to eat blood for the blood, heart for the heart, and liver for the toning; it's a similar philosophy.

Dr. Michael Dym  22:54

Right, right. I mean, and even the concept, not that it's saying I don't want to open up a whole can rest of our show. Still, vaccination involves diluted amounts of viruses or bacteria that stimulate an immune response. That's more on a physical level. And what we're talking about homeopathically is on an energetic level. That's where I think people go when they can't see it. Even buoyed up like the world of physics, where most particles aren't even met, they're not tangibly measurable with the human eye. It's just to appreciate that there can be healing at that level, at an energetic level, just like there can be healing at the biochemical level, even though energy is more profound. And when we go into energy medicine systems, that's where healing occurs. When we use homeopathic remedies to treat chronic disease, we're lessening our susceptibility to future illness. That's a novel term for Western medicine regarding its strong antibiotics, steroids, and chemotherapeutics. It's not making the patient's life force or chi stronger; if anything, it often weakens the patient. And future cancer is just as likely, if not more, in the Western medically treated patient. Whereas in homeopathically treated patients, our goal is to make the patient stronger and less susceptible to future illness because we're enhancing the health of the patient's life force, which is the energy that governs the body's physical functions. And that's where people get uneasy about that point. That's all out. And then, of course, you get into spirituality, soul healing, and all of that, but that's the healing level that can occur with energy medicines like homeopathy.

The Science Behind Homeopathy And Its Benefits (24:55)

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  24:55

On that level, we need help understanding the system's workings; we have yet to learn but to try to look at it. And we look at genes, and genes are expressed, and then they produce a specific protein. But then, this is part of a biochemical pathway. But there are hundreds of thousands of biochemical pathways, all interacting. And you pluck one string from one of the pathways. And, if you like, the energy of plucking that string affects everything else. So, if somebody has tapped into this with homeopathy in the same way that the Chinese tapped into pain receptors and hormonal responses by sticking in needles at specific points, observing the effects, and then putting it together, we don't understand how all that works. But if it does work, why not use it? And if somebody is trained in that area, that's what we should be using. Because we have to; when I came out as a veterinarian, we literally couldn't, and this was in Australia. And really, we weren't taught at that time. The scientific idea was that all mares had to be the same. We had a leading veterinarian in Australia who ran a postgraduate course; his name was Tank, Tom Hungerford, and he said, I want to know what you did. I want to see how you did it. And whatever the response was, I don't care about the niceties of double blinds and all that. He said, If it works, I want you to share it with your fellow veterinarian. Well, to a large degree, that has been lost in the newsletter he found because today, they all want to do double blinds. But to a degree, it's still there. And that is true healing. And that's where we should be, and so obviously, I need to learn more about homeopathy to practice. Things like Arnica work on this acute level. But if somebody like yourself and the Pitkin Institute has looked into this in great depth and knows how to work this homeopathic machine, and some of them, we should use it. And it's wild to say, Oh, I'm not going to get better via that method; I'd instead use drugs that will give me all these side effects if I know that the homeopathic machine, the acupuncture machine, or whatever can do the job. I don't care what the theorists say; we are here to heal. Right? That's what it's all about. And we've lost that vision of ourselves. What killed it most, in my opinion, is this business of the veterinary profession; once I saw the business arm come in, where you had to make so many dollars from each visit, that's killed. Any meaningful interaction with patients to a large degree. Oh,

Dr. Michael Dym  28:07

You're so right. And I know,  most of the, in here in the States, I mean, so many, the movement and conventional vet practices, the buying up of practices by corporate veterinary medicine, big giant, multi-billion dollar companies that buy up the small animal practitioner, the old, Mom and Pop practitioner, and we don't see that anymore. It's a huge business, and how much income can you generate? And it's not about the patient's actual health or getting to know your patient. Not. Yeah. And it's like that in our field of medicine and human medicine, of course. So it's a loss of touch, of getting to know your patient. And,  it's you're right about the double-blind Placebo model. Several years ago, Dr. Ron Schultz, an immunologist in the States, looked at the effects of the Parvo vaccine Nosodes on preventing Parvo disease in young puppies. He was trying to apply He acknowledged that he was trying to use the Western conventional model to study nosodes, diluted substances of the actual disease cargo, or those developed from the secretions of an animal affected by Parvo. However, clinical evidence has shown that Parvo Nosodes can be just as effective as the vaccine, if not more so. So, a lot of my holistic clients who bring me in puppies, we put them on a Parvo Nosodes protocol, and we don't see parvovirus in those animals. Isn't that wonderful? And yeah, yeah, without the side effects of the vaccines.

Rob Ryan  30:00

Do you have a titer for Parvo?

Dr. Michael Dym  30:04

how it works, Rob is, in a nutshell, the Parvo nosode as an energy medicine itself comes in and almost blocks the susceptibility to come across with the actual virus. So it's an energetic concept, almost like if you're thinking of PacMan, it fills that space so that the parvovirus can't get in your ends well, and so it's an energy concept, where this diluted substance of Parvo prepared homeopathically, as nosodes, blocks the entrance of and blocks the susceptibility to the actual viral infection. So young puppies are not as prone to clinical disease, which obviously can be very serious in a puppy.

Rob Ryan  30:51

Wow. What

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  30:55

I then have a question: do they maintain that ability into adulthood?

Dr. Michael Dym  31:03

I'd like to know if that's ever been studied. But the fact is that, in my experience over the past 30 years, parvovirus infection, as the most acute viral infection, is most commonly seen in young puppies under a year of age in highly stressful situations. We'll use these nosodes in homeopathy land when animals are most susceptible to clinical disease. So, after they were a year of age, we stopped using Parvo or distemper nosodes because we did not see clinical conditions in the clinic after that age. So, orphaned animals exposed their immune systems and could handle it independently.

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  31:48

which is what we want to do: strengthen our immune system to deal with it. That's what the vaccine is attempting to do anyway. But you're doing it on a deeper level, in a sense. That's exactly right. Working with the immune system to become stronger. That's what I'm hearing, anyway. And if that's working, how brilliant is that? But the trouble is, Dr. Michael, there's no money in it. There are pharmaceutical companies, and the problem is that we must become more generous as professionals. How do we do that? I don't know.

Dr. Michael Dym  32:33

I think the key is, is and I'll it's, it's, it's sad, but the key is trying to get to the young veterinary students before they're brainwashed into this way of being. As soon as you go to veterinary school, in your traditional training, it's run by pharmaceutical companies, the pet food industry, and the pet food conglomerates. And it's not training us in energy medicine or homeopathy. We must find a way to educate young veterinary students and veterinarians about that. And, there's a movement over the country in veterinary schools to sponsor training, whether it's a Dr. Pitt Cannons course or acupuncture at the veterinary school level, in other words, through organizations and associations, and that's all we can do. But it's a huge obstacle dealing with the Western medical, Big Pharma, philosophy of medical training.

How To Bring Back The Naturopathic Model? (33:45)

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  33:45

It's the Western medical model and the philosophy behind it that's a vast system to change.

Dr. Michael Dym  33:51

It is. And so, somehow, we have to bring back the naturopathic colleges; back in the turn of the century, most of the medical hospitals in this country were homeopathic. Only the rise of the AMA and the American Medical Association squashed homeopathic teaching hospitals because it became more about money and greed than it did about the health of the patient or the animal. Yeah.

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  34:24

In many of our lectures, particularly in the early days, I talked to people about taking their animals under the refeeding rule. This was the opposite, but it's a very similar situation. The same person presents these animals to their vet and says, This happens when you feed real food; you start to heal the animal without drugs or surgery because you're putting into their bodies what the body requires to be expected, healthy, and normally functioning. And that's gone on quite a bit, and we are gradually seeing a change, but this will come in many ways from the bottom. And if enough people demand that their profession have these skills, this profession will have to look at it naturally. So it's up to people like ourselves, who are influencing the people out there through the web, to become more interested in actual healing instead of using drugs. This is where the push has to come from; it has to go from the ground-level people who have sick animals and now say, We don't want this anymore. So that's where we have to push it.

Dr. Michael Dym  35:38

Absolutely. And animals—I don't know if we'll get into it—but animals today are sicker than ever before, just like children, with more chronic diseases, immune-mediated diseases, cancer, and younger and younger animals. That fueled my interest in homeopathy when I graduated from Penn in the early '90s. In my early training, I was taught very well by my allopathic Lee, by my medical, by my teaching, by my education, and using drugs over and over again, or surgical techniques, was only banned dating, or what we call homeopathy palliating, or suppressing the symptoms. But the patients were unhealthier. They were coming back quicker or with other side effects from the medications. And so with that, with decades of treating allopathic Lee with drugs, steroids, antibiotics, surgical solid procedures, and chemotherapeutics, we're seeing sicker patients at younger ages. I mean, the incidence of most chronic diseases is much higher today than it was; I'm sure you can see over 3040 years ago. It's a sicker population. And so that's really what fueled my interest in looking at it from a different perspective.

Rob Ryan  37:02

Yeah, but you have to be efficient in your energy medicine; you have to be very interested in what's happening with all the cell phones everywhere and all the cell towers, and I mean, talk about how we're just getting bombarded by, I mean, yes, there's more toxins in our environment, but when you start combining them with EMFs and all of their signals.

Dr. Michael Dym  37:27

That adds another factor to ensure EMFs and cell phones. What we see at that level, that energy, the bombardment of our life force by our CI, is wreaking havoc on our systems and making it harder to respond to homeopathic remedies. When Hahnemann, the father of homeopathy, was in practice, we didn't have all these obstacles to cure. Now, there are tremendous obstacles to healing, not just as you said, and with our food supply, environment, chemicals, water, and every other toxic insult, we have it at that energetic level now. So that makes it even more challenging. Yeah, yeah,

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  38:11

We're even getting outside. One of our problems is that so many dogs and people are now in high-rise situations that they don't get outside. And there's something straightforward, like getting out in the morning, looking at the sunshine, and looking around. That in itself is powerful medicine. And that sounds ridiculous. But it is a powerful medicine because it sets all sorts of clocks off in our brain and causes melatonin to happen, which we don't fully understand yet. And we don't have to understand; we must know if this works. Let's use it. And one of those things is simply getting up and looking at the sun or the sunrise, for example. And this sort of thing is denied to people and animals today in our big cities, apartments, and so on. People can think about getting up and practicing a bit of looking around and looking at the early morning with their dogs and cats.

Dr. Michael Dym  39:11

Just so great. You brought that up. And because that's part of a holistic approach to health, it's sunlight, fresh air, exercise, good food, limiting the toxins and the drugs we poison our animals and ourselves with and love. It's just the basics of good health. And we violated that. As you said, we don't allow fresh air and sunshine access. That go and exercise that takes away our health. There are so many obese animals nowadays, mainly because of what they're eating. And their fat cells, liver, and kidneys are so overburdened with the toxins we're pumping into our animals, day after day, month after month. After year after year, we could spend. I'm sure you've had other shows on the toxic pesticides, vaccines, and processed foods contributing to ill health. But it goes back to basics, and it's less is more when you want to break it down; homeopathy is more medicine at an energetic level at a very, you know, material level. Excellent health comes down to that when you look at it that way.

Why Health Is Simple (40:30)

Rob Ryan  40:30

There, you guys just said a lot that the sun is near-infrared. There's nothing better than the sun. For vitamin D melatonin, things you brought up mean not being fully covered, slathered with sunscreen, and not wearing sunglasses and letting it into our eyes. This is a lot of fun. And then the other thought occurs to me: that we have allowed ourselves to be well and to overcomplicate health. And when you get the benefit of talking to brilliant people and working with brilliant vets like yourself and Dr. Billinghurst, the constant mantra you all are trying to beat in our heads is that health is simple. Health is basic. And I'm sure you've encountered people in your daily practice in phone consultations trying to fight you to keep it more complicated. So I'm curious; phone consultations are a big part of what you do for people who need access to you locally. So we talk about where you, like your customers, are, how they come to you, and how you work with them. And it has to be an exciting dance because you're probably coming; many people are coming from traditional veterinary practices and coming to you, right?

Dr. Michael Dym  42:08

right? At the beginning of the program, I brought up skin and ear issues, the first health problems people bring their animals in for. In the traditional vet clinic, when you bring an animal in for an ear, quote, unquote, infection, you're looking at making a slide of the bacteria, the yeast that is growing in the ears; you're looking at under the microscope, and then theoretically, you're choosing a medication to combat a specific yeast or bacteria. Whereas in homeopathy land, what we're interested in is more the individual presentation of that disease, what the discharge looks like, whether there's an odor, whether it's the left ear or the right ear, what the animal's mental and emotional status is at the time of the ear infection, and other background symptoms that are occurring at that time. All of those symptoms go into the homeopathic treatment. So, I don't need to see a patient who comes into my ER and contacts my clinic for an ear infection because it's a different way of looking at the problem. And so a person who can describe that to me on the telephone,  what the discharge looks like, whether it's sensitive to touch, whether it feels better with warm or cold compresses—these are all valuable information for the homeopath. And,  granted, it's always best to see a patient. Hence, you get an idea of the personality and the Guardians, which sometimes goes by prescription, but you can do this work long distance. My homeopath is in South Florida, in Montreal, and I speak to him periodically. He called me and he asked about my symptoms. The symptoms guide the treatment of the disease, not a pathology or a diagnosis. The patient's symptoms are the individual language of what's wrong in the body. Wow. When you ask about that, I often require, for example, that if a client calls me from a long distance, I'll often strongly recommend that they have a physical exam to ensure that the heart and lungs sound good. There are no masses in the abdomen. There are no obstacles to cure, as we say in homeopathy. So, a guardian must have a relationship with a local veterinarian; of course, we have to train them not to fall victim to the pressures of a Western medical model of medicine, which is looking to give drugs and poisons to the patient. A physical exam is undoubtedly essential but not mandatory for a homeopath's work.

Rob Ryan  44:57

What do you think about all the vet and health advice on Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube everywhere?

Dr. Michael Dym  45:09

Well, it's done a lot of service to people who don't have access to a local holistic or homeopathic veterinarian, as Richard Pitcairn used to talk about when he was first doing this work back in the 1970s. And the 80s. Of course, you needed to have the technology we had back then. He did see local patients in Oregon and did phone work back then. But nowadays, we have all of our modern tools, and it's helpful, Rob, but what happens is that clients will often use that instead of seeing a local veterinarian or working with a veterinary, trained, holistic practitioner.

Nutrition And Homeopathic Medicine (45:57)

Dr. Michael Dym  45:57

We have to be careful because when we use the energy systems of medicine, herbs, or other natural modalities, we have to be familiar with the pathologies of the body, how the body tries to heal itself, or the effects of herbs or homeopathic remedies on the patient. And when you don't have that training, that can sometimes become a touchy ground where someone not trained in Western medicine can harm the animal if there's a healing crisis or a homeopathic aggravation. And so that's what I have against some of these chat rooms and free advice. There are places on the internet where it's found, and people are looking for a quick fix. They're saying, What's the treatment for my dog's skin and ear problems? What's the homeopathic remedy for seizures or cancer, and it doesn't work that way? It's an individualized system of medicine; when you use homeopathy, you also need to be trained. If the body tries to heal itself, if it goes awry, you need to have a background in pathology and diseases—what we learn in medical school, in other words.

Rob Ryan  47:21

Well, so let me switch my camera here. I'm

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  47:26

I have a lot of thoughts here. But I have one question, Dr. Michael: to what extent do you use nutrition with homeopathy? Can you talk about that?

Dr. Michael Dym  47:39

Well, food is medicine, as you say. He has had your expertise for many decades. And so I start with that: Hippocrates, the father of drugs, and Let food be thy medicine. And, of course, food has its energy, and everything we put in our bodies is energy; every mass on this planet equals MC squared and has a point. And so yeah, I recommend that clients feed a species-appropriate diet. I prefer a raw meat diet—a predatory diet. I know many models of doing that online and through my colleagues. But I've always stuck to what a carnivore and an omnivore should eat. And so I defer to people like yourself and other experts. And there are so many resources with your materials and those of other nutritionally oriented veterinarians that I always recommend as part of a species-appropriate diet. As you mentioned earlier, often when you change the diet of these animals, too, a lot of these chronic problems go away, and we don't need even homeopathic remedies to treat a lot of those patients because the body's wisdom of using the foods that evolved to eat is a tremendous asset to self-healing.

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  49:08

Proper food and homeopathy have a tremendous synergy.

Dr. Michael Dym  49:14

Yeah. Yeah, they're both working at an intense level with the patient. And so,  I always encourage my clients to get the animals off the process so they can feed the dry kibble, even the novel versions. Back, I'm sure you remember, decades ago, there wasn't a tremendous expansion of natural, grain-free, and freeze-dried foods. They're all well and good, and they might be a little better than the processed commercial food, but they still don't hold a can of worms to what these animals should be eating, which is the basics of the rotating predatory meat-based diet, as you can get tested.

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  50:01

You can buy real food at the local supermarket by shopping around the edges.

Dr. Michael Dym  50:06

Right? I mean, it's so interesting, and to draw it back to what we were talking about earlier about the tremendous, big pharma and pet food conglomerates, I can't. It's frustrating to hear and see my colleagues on the conventional side of things recommend these processed kibbles and canned foods after not being trained on nutrition in medical school. I spent about two hours on food in my third year of medical school. And that's not changed today. And so, it's tragic that the pet Guardian is coming to the veterinarian for expertise on how animals should eat. And they're hardly getting that; they're just getting the spiel: feed processed commercial food; one of the significant corporate-based diets doesn't feed table food, and your animal should be healthy. It's as far removed as what could be for proper health—the foundations of health. But again, there's

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  51:12

No, that is trying to believe that nutrition is a dead issue. They don't have to worry about it being solved. And anything they see as a disease or a problem is unrelated to food. Just get on with the drugs on the measure. That's the way veterinarians are trained. Sorry, Rob.

Do We Need To Do A Better Job As Consumers? (51:35)

Rob Ryan  51:35

No, no, not at all. We have to do a better job as consumers. It isn't just the vets' job to understand the system created in the veterinary business; we touched upon this earlier. People need to come in for wellness visits. They're only coming in because either the law or their vet has said, by law, you must get vaccinated at this interval. And it's bringing them back into the office. The other thing that brings people back into the office is these prescription diets, these so-called prescription diets. So you have to come in, you have to say hi to the lady behind the desk, and, hey,  let's check Fido out, or, by the way, Dr. Dym is running a joke between Dr. Billinghurst and myself as we always talk about how we use phyto to refer to a dog, but we've never met a dog named Fido. Have you ever met a dog named?

Dr. Michael Dym  52:39

No, no, but that's good. That's an excellent generic reference, though. Right? Right.

Rob Ryan  52:45

But we've got to do a better job because veterinarians have spent a ton of money to become vets, they spend a ton of money on setting up a practice, and they have staff. They have to feed their families and make a living,  so they're looking for ways to have an actual business. And I appreciate that. And so I think we need to do a better job of bringing our animals in proactively and having them checked. I want to go back super quick. It just dawned on me that I remember with my dog, oh, when he was there was a time he was a yellow lab that had quite a bit of skin issues; even though he was under vet care, holistic vets cared his whole life, just a raw-fed diet, taught by Ian himself. And anyway, he was constantly pulling out his ear, and then it puffed up, and I, for what does that call the hematoma? Yeah. And so I tried to bring them in quick enough, and it got so bad that they said he would have to do that pin pricking and then cut the year in the years to let the blood out. And then they discovered some scarring inside—a little bit inside the ear. So they told me it would be this extensive surgery, and he could lose hearing. I mean, it blew me away. I didn't see it coming. Right. And so I called up my doctor, who is a fantastic integrative doctor, and he said, I will never forget this. I was actually at the airport when he called me back. So what's going on? I said, Look, I don't know if this is even worth a call. But my doctor and my veterinarian said This is what Oh, and she has to go through surgery. It's a bad deal. I'm just looking for a way to get through without it. So he said, Well, if it's scar tissue, there is this homeopathic, and I forgot the name of it. It was to Germany, and there is this homeopathic, if you put a few, one of the side effects of it is that it's actually for some. I think it was for eyes for glaucoma or something. However, one side effect they found is that it dissolves scar tissue. I said, dissolving scar tissue. What? That sounds ridiculous. I said I'd try it. So I bought two baby vials that did it, I think, twice or thrice daily. A week later, I took him to the vet, who is holistic, integrative, excellent, and open-minded. She said to me, What year was it? Oh, wow, that's amazing. And I couldn't believe it when she asked that question. I could not believe it. I won't even share the remedy when I look it up because my only reason for sharing this is that there's no zero financial interest and no other interest other than miracles that can happen with all sorts of different types of medicines. And he never had to have that surgery. He was excellent. And it was a complete fluke, but it's, again, phone consults and having a unique, yeah, health team, both for yourself and also for your animal. Gosh, it's so important.

Dr. Michael Dym  56:19

Yeah, yeah, it is. And, like I brought up a few minutes ago about food, one of the things is medicine.

What Is The Definition Of The Word Doctor? (56:27)

Dr. Michael Dym  56:27

In Latin, the original name of the word doctor means "teacher." Yeah. So,  our job as clinicians is to teach clients how to keep their animals healthy. At the purest definition of a doctor,

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  56:43

I am so glad you said that. For a long time, I have been speaking to my people. When I do a concert, we do it via Zoom, which is marvelous. We could, and it's almost like being in the same room. I am here to teach you how to feed your dog. That's what I'm asked to do.

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  57:01

And then, the dog will do a consultation. And yeah, that's it. Interestingly, I started my career in Ag science before I did vet science. And then, I had a career as a teacher at the high school level for four or five years. So yes, this has been my constant life as a vet and teacher. So, how true is that? I wasn't aware of that. So thank you.

Dr. Michael Dym  57:28

Yeah, no, that's what the Latin word doctor means. And so

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  57:31

ever study lead deficiency in my education?

Dr. Michael Dym  57:37

Well, I mean, it's, and so when people contact the holistic veterinarian, it's,  if they're coming from conventional training, conventional clinics, they're so used to this, then the charges of the visit, being minor, being the exam. Then the rest of it is diagnostics, expensive diagnostics, and then expensive drug treatments, whereas the whole holistic practice of the homeopathic veterinarians charging for their time and getting to know the patient takes an adjustment with clients that come. What am I paying for? I'm not paying for anything tangible that I can measure. And so that's another challenge for the holistic practitioner: what we're charging for our time and expertise. And so we want to be fair to our clients, but at the same time, it takes some education because people are often not. They're used to the Western model of medicine.

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  58:34

Well, I finished my conference; it was there. Have you understood? And have you any questions? Because

Dr. Michael Dym  58:40

Always ask if you haven't, right? I always find that helpful. I always ask if they have any questions.

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  58:45

many questions, that's all the way through. But yeah, so it's such a teaching model. And in fact, I did the same thing with my staff. The whole time we were with the team, I was teaching them. So if somebody had to move to another area, they always found a job because they were such good staff that they understood what was happening. Wow, that was always in demand.

Dr. Michael Dym  59:15

while you train well to teach them.

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  59:19

And it wasn't for any other reason that I wanted them to know what was happening. So so they could assist in what I was doing was beautiful.

Dr. Michael Dym  59:28

Well, it's the nature analogy, and knowledge is power. And so it's more than just the Western model of a quick exam, and then, as I said, diagnostics, drugs, and surgery, and then people are leaving with several $100 bills, and their animals are hardly any healthier.

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  59:48

That's exactly right. Or not healthier, or worse, but we're charging you anyway.

Dr. Michael Dym  59:55

Right, right.

Rob Ryan  59:57

Well, it's also that same thing we keep touching on, which is the responsibility of the vet and the responsibility of the client, the customer. Most of my interactions with my veterinarians have been social and relationship-building while I'm there for a particular purpose. I want to get to know them, and I want them to get to know me. My current vet is bizarre; most of our conversation is probably 95% of our current events and political discussion. We enjoy talking about it with each other. And it's his hobbies—woodworking and music—that we have in common. And then that 5% sliver because he's so good. He'll look at him while we're talking. It'll say, So what's your concern? Boom, it goes right to it. And so,  I don't, I don't ever ask might be, Well gee, why did I get? Why did I get charged this amount when 5% of it was? No, no, no, that's not; that's not how I see things; I want a relationship. And I like the person caring for my dog or pets to know me well enough and know where I'm coming from. We have to, and we have to do a better job of being connected to people—critical people in our lives and people who care for us and care for our loved ones, including our animals. Those are meaningful relationships in our lives.

Where To Find Dr. Dym’s Information? (1:01:34)

Dr. Michael Dym  1:01:34

brought up, and at some point, Rob and so much of the Guardian's perspective, and even healthcare challenges or issues, go into what's happening with the animal. And some of my colleagues homeopathically treat the Guardian and the animal. So there's that interconnection that's so important to understand, too. And sometimes I find that when I'm treating an animal if I don't address some of the issues with the Guardian, that's an obstacle to curing the patient. So there's, it's all an inter, an integrative functioning system,  Guardian, veterinarian animal,

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  1:02:13

Well, you must know what that Guardian can and can't do. And you have to tailor the treatment to allow them to do what they can. So, it is a very personalized situation with a vet; vets must understand animal medicine and how the body works at this so-called natural level.

Dr. Michael Dym  1:02:35

Right, thanks a lot. Rob brought up a good point earlier in the beginning of the show: how we have to honor where everybody is at. So, I get the perspectives of clients when they call me. And sometimes, their holistic medicine and homeopathy knowledge could be more extensive. And so, if they're feeding commercial food, I must broach that topic delicately. And,  sometimes, they will move from commercial food too; as I've mentioned, the food will be freeze-dried, less processed, and then eventually, hopefully, to a raw diet. And if so, we have to honor that everybody's at a different point on their healing journey. We must observe how each person treats that animal; we don't want to become confrontational, saying your animal must do it this way or things will cave in. But it's an ongoing process. It's looking at each person, and each animal is an individual.

Rob Ryan  1:03:34

Well, there's no point in prescribing something that somebody will not do sustainably. I mean,

Dr. Michael Dym  1:03:40

exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

Rob Ryan  1:03:43

Well, this is a mate. This time has flown by. We've been at this for an hour, Michael. Wow. It's fantastic. We have to do this again. I hope soon. And we'll pick up this conversation where we left off, but I want to go over where people can find you now. So we've been putting up your website, Drdym.com. You've got a fantastic show if you're listening to this and not watching it.

Dr. Michael Dym  1:04:15

Yeah, each Wednesday, I do a program with a local, excellent nutritional guru, as I call him, Bill, Chucky; he has a beautiful store down here in Pompano where he has excellent diets, species-appropriate raw diets that he sends locally and all over the country. So we do a weekly radio program on I Heart Radio every Wednesday evening, and the pet health cafe sponsors it. And we have an integrative fun show every Wednesday evening at eight o'clock. So anybody who's listening on iHeartRadio

Rob Ryan  1:04:57

that's great. And it's called My Paleo Pet, right?

Dr. Michael Dym  1:05:01

were my paleo pet. Exactly. Yep. But you can just.

Rob Ryan  1:05:05

find it. It's straightforward to find at PetHealth.café.com.

Dr Michael Dym  1:05:09

That's right. We have been having this show for a couple of years and enjoy each week; we do a different topic on holistic care, from diet to nutrition to toxicity to other healthcare topics like homeopathy. And so it's a lot of fun. And it's got good reception. And it's a service we provide. And I enjoy it.

Rob Ryan  1:05:35

I love that. Well, that's excellent education. That's where it's at. Yep. Well, it's been a pleasure. I'll link to Pick Karns's website, where you can find an educated homeopathic veterinarian. And you certainly can bring up Dr. Dym. Go to his website to schedule an appointment. I highly recommend it. It was great to spend time with you today.

Dr Michael Dym  1:06:03

I enjoyed interacting with you guys. I enjoyed it.

Rob Ryan  1:06:09

Thank you, everybody, for joining us. And we'll leave it there, and next time, we'll pick up this conversation with Dr. Dym where we left off. Have a great day, everybody. Thank you.