Introduction To Dr. Gary Richter (1:11)
- Introducing Dr. Gary Richter
- America’s Favorite Veterinarian and Best-Selling Author
Food And Supplements For Pets (1:35)
- Food and supplements
- The origins of the Holistic vet
- The cornerstone of all good health is a balanced diet
- Ultimate Pet Nutrition
The Turning Point In Dr. Ian Billinghurst’s Career (5:20)
- In The early 1980s, Australia and Raw Pet food
- The evolution of the Pet food industry
- Processed Pet food and Eating Raw food
Dr. Gary Richter’s Introduction To Nutrition And Nutrition Education (8:46)
- Becoming An Integrative Veterinarian Before There Were Integrative Veterinarians
- Common sense way to feed animals
- How Dr. Gary Richter got out of the Kibble Paradigm
- Chinese Medicine And Chiropractic Nutritional Therapy
Staying Off The Conventional Path (13:53)
- An Irish retriever with long, flowing hair
- The lowest of low-hanging fruit
- The importance of Nutrition in the treatment of chronic problems
Why Real Food Is A Solution? (18:33)
- The simple solution is usually the right one
- How Dr. Gary Richter thinks about the veterinary profession
- Every veterinarian is not sincere about what they do
- Implicit bias in veterinary research
- The Big Pet Food Companies
What Is The Ultimate Best Food For Pets? (26:13)
- The importance of education in the field of veterinary therapy
- Healthy and Unhealthy dogs
- Making Pet Food for Pets
- Why does Dr. Gary Richter likes pork for his older dogs?
- Pork is an uncommon ingredient in commercial pet foods
- The difference in antigenicity between processed and fresh protein
What We Don’t Understand About Pet Food? (34:40)
- Large pet food companies don't talk about their pet food
- The business of being a vet
- Why should veterinarians minor in psychology and undergrad?
- How to gain trust with clients?
- Every veterinarian is practicing from the heart
- The importance of education and explanation
The Importance Of Trust In Veterinary Medicine (42:12)
- Trust is a big issue for pet parents
- Empathy is important in veterinary medicine
How To Communicate With Your Customers? (45:04)
- The importance of good communication with a vet
- Implicit biases in the veterinary profession
- Empowering people with knowledge and making the choice
Supplementation For Dogs (49:46)
- The responsibility of the customer to build a relationship with their Vet
- Supplementation
- The opposite of most pet parents
- Supplements for dogs and their health
- The two most effective supplements for dogs
- The importance of Rotating Probiotics and Omegas
How Do You Think About Supplements? (57:22)
- The importance of variety and fresh foods
- How he thinks about supplements and longevity?
- Longevity is not a one-dimensional thing
- Longevity for dogs and cats
- Molecular hydrogen and its role in longevity
- How molecular hydrogen helps in longevity and performance?
Hormetic Stress And Your Body’s Response (1:04:59)
- Ozone Therapy And Hyperbaric Therapy
- Oxygen And Hormetic Stress In The Body
- Resistance And Damage To The Body
- Lack Of Calories And Stress
- Life was rough back in the day
- How to get more information about Dr. Gary Richter
Rob Ryan 00:02
Well, hello, everybody. Good morning. Good afternoon. Good evening, wherever you are in the world. Thank you for joining us once again. We're really excited today to bring you an amazing veterinarian, in addition to my partner and veterinarian, one of the greatest, Dr. Ian Billinghurst.
Dr. Ian Billinghurst 00:19
Good morning, Rob. Well, thank you for that amazing introduction.
Introduction To Dr. Gary Richter (1:11)
Rob Ryan 00:23
Oh, happy to do it. You're very welcome. Well, speaking of today, we have America's favorite veterinarian. And he is a busy man, and he has a ton of his bio. He was incredible. He has a ton of letters after his name, he had a practice, and he's still working at a practice. He's a best-selling author. He created a pet food company we’ll get into here in a second. He's a very busy guy. So we're really happy to have him. Should we bring him on?
Dr. Ian Billinghurst 00:59
Indeed. Right. It's a great honor to have this man on because somebody of this stature talking to you today is incredible. So yes, indeed.
Rob Ryan 01:11
Great. Well, let's welcome Dr. Gary Richter.
Dr Gary Richter 01:15
Hello, it's a pleasure to be here.
Rob Ryan 01:17
Morning. Hello. Great to have you. So well, let's start going first and foremost. Let’s go a little bit more into your bio. So you founded to help create the Ultimate Pet Nutrition Food? Is that correct?
Dr. Gary Richter 01:34
Yeah, food and supplements?
Food And Supplements For Pets (1:35)
Rob Ryan 01:37
Yes, that's right, and supplements. So why don't we go through it? Let's get right into that part. Because there's so much interesting, I'm your holistic vet, and you've got a ton of. I mean, I dug into a number of your videos, and it's incredible how many things you have going on, and you're a busy man. So why don't we let's start in the pet food area? Is that all right? Yeah, of course. Good. I'm a big fan of this food. Let’s discuss what, when, and why and why you started it. That’s probably one of the big things we can let's start there.
Dr. Gary Richter 02:15
Well, I think the why originates in, really, where my passions and motivations are as far as veterinary practice goes. And, you know, I'm very much an integrative medicine practitioner. In my office, we provide both Western veterinary care but also all manner of complementary and alternative care, ranging from acupuncture, chiropractic, herbal therapy, hyperbaric oxygen, and what have you, you know. I'm sure I'm not telling Dr. Billinghurst anything he doesn't know. But the bottom line is that prevention and therapeutic health always start with good nutrition. And I think that probably, the greatest shortcoming of the veterinary profession overall is in how veterinarians discuss food and nutrition with pet owners, and unfortunately, frequently, they don't. And when they do, it's usually to discuss some sort of prescription diet and, you know, the cornerstone of all good health must come from properly balanced fresh, whole food diets. And that's really where ultimate pet nutrition got started. I searched for the kinds of foods that I wanted, not only my own dogs but my patient's dogs and cats to be eating. And I needed help finding it. So ultimately, that became a necessity was the mother of invention sort of thing, and I made it.
Rob Ryan 03:58
right, ultimately, I like it. You said that the Ultimate Pet Nutrition Food. And then let's talk about supplements and how you think about those because you have a line of supplements within pet ultimate pet nutrition.
Dr. Gary Richter 04:12
Yeah, sure, so supplements. I am very much not anti-Western medicine in the sense that I will put patients on pharmaceuticals, I will recommend surgery, etc. But again, if we're talking about preventative care and long-term care to keep animals healthy, we have to look at supplementation via nutritional supplementation and herbal supplementation to really both round out and augment these fresh whole food diets they should be on. Never mind the pets that are not on ideal diets for one reason or another. We have to do something to some toward their health because of the shortcomings in their nutrition. And that's where the supplements came in to provide these pets with the nutrients they need to keep their bodies healthy and healthy. Yeah.
The Turning Point In Dr. Gary Richter’s Career (5:20)
Dr. Ian Billinghurst 05:20
I'm listening to your talk, Gary. And that's exactly where I came from—just frustration with the vet industry. In my case, though, observing because this was Australia back in, are we talking about the early 1980s? And in Australia in the early 1980s, it was absolutely normal to feed raw food to dogs and cats. Nobody gave it a second thought as it. But at that time, we had a huge push from some companies that were coming into Australia and saying, we have a field here right for the picking. All we have to do is encourage more pet ownership and then encourage more pet nutrition through processed pet food, and we can make a fortune. And this was where it came from. So I was a young veterinarian with a background in my own case of only ever having been fed raw food. And with only understanding that as a way of feeding dogs witnessing or having to add to that the fact that at university, as in the final two years, we were taught to feed process pet food as the legitimate and best way to feed dogs and cats. So marrying those two things together, in practice, I was faced with this situation. And I could be an observer of two populations. One population is fed processed pet food, and the other population eats basically butcher scraps based on raw meaty bones, bits of organ meat, and human food scraps and are always young families. So they were foods that they were raising their children on. So pretty well healthy food scraps. And this one population is based on bones and human food scraps. They didn't pay my bills, but they were absurdly healthy. On the other hand, this heap of patients and clients were now feeding in this new, veterinary-approved way. And they certainly paid the bills, paid the wages, the insurance, and everything else. And this was these people were being fed processed pet food. Now, it took me a while to make that leap. But once I made it, I set the path of my life. Like yourself, I'm not to what extent I never called myself a holistic or any of those things. I don't think to some degree, yes, they were talking about that they didn't have the word integrated back then. But what they had was that we were just vets, and I decided that I would recommend raw food. This began the whole process of my life in a way that I never regarded myself as holistic; I was just a vet who used surgery and pharmaceuticals. Still, most of the time, they didn't have to be that we can get rid of all that simply by feeding real whole raw food. And that's really direct my life has taken. I've been sort of just having this one punch apart from my training.
Dr. Gary Richter’s Introduction To Nutrition And Nutrition Education (8:46)
Dr. Gary Richter 08:46
Yeah, you were an integrative veterinarian before there were integrative veterinarians,
Dr. Ian Billinghurst 08:51
something without really trying,
Rob Ryan 08:56
your nutritionist before there were pet nutritionists, right?
Dr. Ian Billinghurst 09:01
All of that Well, I had studied nutrition during my agricultural science degree, so yes, in that sense, I was a bonafide nutritionist, but suddenly I became this raw food nutrition. And nobody thought of complete and balanced diets just like they didn't for themselves or their children. Sure, it was fed what was appropriate for the species involved. For example, we knew that cats ate mostly a meat-based diet and very little vegetables, enough cat vegetables, dogs, you would offer a bit of both, they were, you know, more omnivorous than cats and so on. It was common sense. And that was why this book came to be. We just spoke about the practical common sense way to feed dogs, and I firmly believed I would end up with a book on cats that has yet to write a specific book on cats. But anyway, enough about me go, so I'm just finding some parallels between my life annuals.
Dr. Gary Richter 10:05
To be sure, and I mean it to me, it's such a fascinating concept that everybody in principle understands that for ourselves, the more fresh whole foods we eat, the healthier we are likely to be. And somehow, we've gotten to this place where from a veterinary professional standpoint, the only thing acceptable to feed animals is the most highly processed foods you can possibly think of. You know, you said it perfectly. It's common sense it ought to be. But it's not apparent.
Dr. Ian Billinghurst 10:43
And that's, that's the astounding thing. And everybody's bought into it.
Dr. Gary Richter 10:47
Well, yeah. Because, you know, unfortunately, I mean, how much nutrition education veterinarians get in school, we get next to nothing. And, you know, I mean, what I got in school was, I remember our nutrition professor telling us to put the dog on a kibble that they do well on and keep them on that for the rest of his life until it gets old and he needs a prescription diet and then put them on KD. That's what they taught us. And you know what, for a number of years, that's what I've believed. Because that's, that's that was my whole context of reality, until you get out in the real world, and you start to see, wait a minute, this is a problem.
Dr. Ian Billinghurst 11:28
What I tried to do was very simple. There was no AAFCO back then on pet food; there was just a label that said complete and balanced. If it said that, your home and house you're going to go.
Rob Ryan 11:44
What was it for you, Gary, when you snapped out of it? What was there a moment? Was there a time? Do you remember back then? I mean, what got you out of that paradigm?
Dr. Gary Richter 11:56
Well, I think I was in practice for many years. And I think many people that you know, that are not in medicine don't realize that the practice of medicine, like so many other things in life, is more or less following an algorithm. So if this happens, then do that. And then, based on the test results, you do this. And you know, you work your way down the algorithm. And somewhere along the line, you run out of a road, and there’s nothing left to do. And at that point, as a veterinarian, effectively what you do is you go to your client, and you say, there's nothing left I can do; take your dog or your cat home, and let me know when it's time to say goodbye. I hated having a conversation, and I still hate having that conversation. And that was what led me to start investigating things that were, you know, outside of the realm of what they taught in vet school. So I started investigating Chinese medicine, acupuncture, herbal therapy, chiropractic, nutritional therapy, etc. And I very quickly found that I was able to get much, much further down that road with my patients that I was treating that way than I ever did before. And the reality is, once you’ve seen that, you can't unseat that, you can't ever turn around and go back and say, Well, I'm just gonna put all my renal cats on KD and go home. Because once you realize that you could be doing a better job. I mean, as a doctor and a health care provider, you have to do the best job possible, as nothing else will satisfy you. So that's what did it. I mean, once I saw what was possible, there was no way not to do it.
Staying Off The Conventional Path (13:53)
Dr. Ian Billinghurst 13:53
And that's, I think that's it for so many health professionals who stray off the conventional path they have; there’s a sudden vision, there's almost an epiphany, and there was certainly for me, and you are then forced. You can't go against your own nature, which says, I'm here to help. And in my case, it was I'm never gonna give up. That was
Dr Gary Richter 14:21
A story that happened. I'll tell you the story that happened. Just last week, somebody came into my office with a 19-year-old dog. And the client looked at me, and he goes, you probably need to remember this. But I came here ten years ago to talk to you about making a geriatric health plan for my dog. Wow. You know, to which my comment was apparently that was the best damn geriatric health plan I ever put together. But here we are. I mean, the dog is 19 and still bopping around. Amazing. Yep.
Dr. Ian Billinghurst 14:56
I had a similar story, and I'm an Irish retriever and Irish setter; we should have long flowing hair and move gracefully and beautifully. This dog was asked for it; it was only young and had no hair. And I had just discovered Whole Raw Food as a genuine entity for dogs. Anyway, I'd give which had gone down all the conventional routes, and I sent this dog away with a dietary program. And I said, Well, I've just bought, I can't remember the words I used. I said, give this a go. I confidently expected it wouldn't work because the dog was too far. I guess. I had been waiting to hear from him for six months. And I just assumed they put the dog down or went elsewhere. I'm relieved of that responsibility. And I don't dare ask that. Because I'd hate to think my recommendation didn't work anywhere. One day, they turned up with this healthy young dog, and another Irish setter with a fluffy coat moved freely. I said, Oh, you've got a new dog. The same dog isn't just that. All they had done was changed their diet. I think that, right? And that was one of the earliest experiences that said to me, holy. Terrible, we vet up promoting something which I now call instead of politically correct, I call a poison chalice. But back then, I just said we're promoting food that causes these problems. I was astounded. And it certainly set the course of my life. And that dog that particular dog had a profound effect.
Dr. Gary Richter 16:43
Yeah, I couldn't believe it. And it's so it's it is. Even after 25 years in practice, it's still surprising when you see these unbelievable turnarounds and these dogs with these chronic problems. And all you did was change their diet to something that makes sense. And unfortunately, like, and I'm sure this also happens to you. Still, like so many of these people that come in, they've already been to three, four, or five different veterinarians, you know, that have thrown like every medication you can think of at it. Still, people thought of doing something with nutrition. It is the lowest of low-hanging fruit.
Rob Ryan 17:28
Yep. This is exactly what happened in my life. I was on my fourth vet before I did the research and found Dr. Billinghurst and changed my diet. And the fourth vet was, you know, I didn't know a thing about that back then. This was over 23 years ago. And I was at a, you know, very cookie-cutter veterinary hospital that will remain nameless. And they just said, you know, your dog is going to have to be on steroids the rest of his life. And I didn't know much, but I knew that wasn't the answer. It didn't make any sense to me. And so I said, all right, let's figure out if there's another way, and I started to look into alternative medicine, holistic, and there we go. And I couldn't unsee it once I started to see within four weeks the changes in my dog miraculously, right in four weeks. That got seems like forever, but it goes by quickly. Yeah, can it see that? Agree? Yeah, so- you're laughing?
Why Real Food Is A Solution? (18:33)
Dr. Ian Billinghurst 18:39
Yeah, I think early on. I was I used to say, well, this dog doesn't have a steroid deficiency or an antibiotic deficiency or any of those things. But in fact, they did because the diet provided all those things in the correct balance. Well, not so much antibiotics, but a diet that helped the animal live in harmony with the organisms that shared his life with and via the immune system. So So yeah, I've just, it's funny how you're thinking, changes in a very slight way to include, hey, it all comes back to diet. What is so incredible to understand is that real food is a solution because we are feeding something that is causing all these problems to a large degree. So the whole of our practice in small animal science or small animal medicine is a practice based on the fact that most of the animals out there are eating food that's causing the problem. So the simple solution for most of these problems is to change the food. That's preventative medicine. It's therapeutic medicine and suits somebody to have a very lazy and simplistic nature because it solves many problems without doing much. Anyway, well, you.
Dr Gary Richter 20:11
Know what I mean? Like medicine is complicated enough. If there's a simple solution, I'll take it all day long.
Dr. Ian Billinghurst 20:19
Yeah. Well, it comes back to a thing called Occam's razor. The simple solution is usually the right one when choosing between a view.
Rob Ryan 20:30
Yes. So. So Gary, what how do you think about the veterinary profession? We talked about? You know, the problem? How do you? Do you ever think about what the solution might be in the future? With young vets coming up? And we need more holistic veterinarians in the world? Or let's call them functional? And or, you know, alternative? Veterinary doctors. So, what do you think about a solution? Because we talk about this all the time? Sure.
Dr Gary Richter 21:05
I mean, I think, I think it's worth practicing that question by saying that pretty much every veterinarian out there is practicing the best medicine that they know how to practice; you will, you will have to look far and wide to find a veterinarian who is not sincere about what they do. Sure. It's purely just a need for more education and understanding. Because veterinarians are getting educated from one of two places, they're either getting educated, educated at vet school, or they're getting educated by the food companies and by Pharma. Unfortunately, that's just the way the system is set up. It's the way the system is set up for human medicine as well. You know, and you could talk for days about all the problems. And the solution to your question is tricky because, unfortunately, so much of medicine is governed by where the money goes. And I hate to make it about that. But on many levels, it is. You know, I mean, the pet food companies fund the research, they fund, they, you know, they fund the departments at the veterinary schools, and therefore, there is a there is an implicit bias in where that research goes because they're researching to prove their point. And, you know, I think the thing about, like, when you look at, like, take prescription diets, for example, I think if you look at a lot of the research behind, like, for example, what is an ideal nutritional profile for a dog or a cat with kidney disease? If you look at the research that companies like Hills and Purina did, the research is quite good. The problem is, things go to hell when those nutritional profiles get outside of the researcher and get into the hands of somebody who then has to figure out how to make a product they could make the most profit off of. And I'm not 100% sure exactly what the solution is because who will pay for the clinical trials to show that fresh whole food diets are more beneficial in the long run? I've often thought, and this will likely happen sooner rather than later, that one of these days, I'm going to walk into a large National Veterinary conference. And there will be one of the big pet food companies, be it Hills, Purina, brocade, and whomever who suddenly has come out with a line of fresh food diets, and much like probiotics, they're going to claim they invented the thing. They're going to say, look what we discovered. And you know what, I'm still going to applaud them for it because I don't care what they say; as long as they start recommending proper fresh food diets, who cares if they’ll take credit for it? But at the end of the day, a lot of this is market driven. You know what? Nobody would sell it if people weren't going out there and buying kibble. Unfortunately, kibble is; you can't argue that it's convenient. It's easy. That's one of the reasons why, you know, I ultimately decided to create a food and a freeze-dried format because I'm trying to appeal to people who want to pour something out of the bag and put it in the bowl. Because, you know, I arguably am what is ideal, frozen raw food, frozen cooked food. It requires more thought, care, and maintenance than many people are willing to do. So we had the kind of, you know, I won't say meat in the middle because it's not the middle; it’s much better than the middle. Nonetheless, we have to be, you know, I often tell my clients that any treatment recommendation I make has to be sustainable for that person to do. Do you know if I tell this person I want you to give your dog 16 supplements daily? Well, chances are, that's never going to happen. So there's no point in me making that recommendation, you know, whether it's, you know, whether it's, you know, sustainability from a practical matter or a financial matter, they have to be able to do it and do it easily, or they're not going to do it. And that's what it's about. So I mean, I think it's, it's, you know, it's incumbent upon us to number one, find solutions, for example, like freeze-dried raw diets that are easy for people, and educate enough people and enough veterinarians that the tide starts to shift and the demand starts to shift. So the big pet food companies suddenly see the profitability in doing this. And that's what's going to get us from A to B. Again, I hate to make it about money. But sadly, that's what makes things go.
What Is The Ultimate Best Food For Pets? (26:13)
Dr. Ian Billinghurst 26:13
Let's think so much of what you're saying that it's all correct. Of course, my whole being has been to say yes. But I want to be able to explain what is the ultimate best. And that's the end, the simplest; when I do many consults, I'm encouraging people to make their food because every set point where their dog cannot cope with anything else has been recommended. And the only path forward because, like, I'm buying things going to do this, or very rarely. They have to do it themselves. So I'm now becoming an educator and picking up on other points. Education will serve as the key. It most certainly is. But we have; I don't know whether in your, but in real life, you had Robert Kirk's book, current veterinary therapy, as part of your chair. We had the great honor of having him lecture to us as a guest lecturer in the fourth year of Veterinary Science. Wow. He said to us, your best teacher, so education here will be your clients and the adults who said he was right as you go. And he said, In with respect to nutrition, he said, Ask a very simple question. When you have a healthy dog, ask what they feed. You know, I asked both questions; I asked both healthy and unhealthy dogs. I believe Professor Cook meant what brand of dog food, I suspect. However, back then, in Australia, because at least half the population fed raw Whole Foods, I got didn't get an answer of a brand; I got an answer of food. And that's where that came from. Picking up on another point, you spoke of the research by Hills and other companies into prescription diets. When I formulate prescription diets, my clients, a lot of it, to a very large degree, is based on that research. But instead of using processed pet foods, grains, and so on to fulfill the parameters that research has uncovered. I use raw Whole Foods, and the results are absolutely incredible. And so that's, that's where my life is headed. And all of us have slightly different trajectory trajectories can say that words think I've said, and your life, you know, I've looked at some of your work, not all of it, that's for sure. But you know, it's wonderful what you do. And we're all set on a path, and your path making that freeze-dried foods or something, I thought for a long time, but the cost was so prohibitive, the company that I was working with, for and part of, we could never go that route. So but it's great that you're doing that. Fantastic. Thank You.
Dr Gary Richter 29:12
Yeah, I mean, it's tricky to do and, you know, when I tell most people that have come into my office, you know, that the best thing they can do is make food for their pets themselves. It's just the reality that a lot of people don't have the time, and they don't have the interest. So there's gotta be, there's got to be some middle ground, and that's, you know, that's where we wind up, but I think it's wonderful that you're getting people, you know, to make these diets because that's, you know, that's the perfect solution.
Dr. Ian Billinghurst 29:44
Yep. It is. It is a matter of time because the whole thing was convenient. Here and that's what that's what's. We have such a huge domestic pet population because of the convenience of feeding them. With processed pet foods, yeah, but those on his back have built a veterinary population of the size it is. And money is the road that leads to all of these things. Because if you're running in pet food, nobody will be making it. But there is. And that's why I can run veterinary hospitals and research departments and all that stuff. Because the base materials from which the stuff is produced are very cheap. A long time ago, somebody told me that the cost of the packaging was far more than the cost of the raw materials. And that probably doesn't surprise me.
Rob Ryan 30:42
Wow. So, Dr. Richter - You have two for your food? Ultimate Pet Nutrition? Don't you have two proteins, beef and pork? Right?
Dr. Gary Richter 30:53
So there's beef, there's beef, pork, and chicken. And there are a couple more proteins that will be coming out. There's a fish coming out soon. And we have one more on the way also.
Rob Ryan 31:07
Oh, that's great. So I'm always curious. I'm a fan of pork for dogs, especially my older dogs. Why do you like pork?
Dr Gary Richter 31:17
Well, you know, I mean, when when you know someone when I had the original discussions with my team about how we were going to do this, I mean, the first thing that I wanted is I wanted the diets to be single protein. Because the more proteins I put in a food, the greater the chance that any dog's going to have an issue. So like, for example, if somebody knows that their dog doesn't do well on beef, well, then fine. And that's just one thing that they can avoid. Pork is a protein. It's not necessarily a better protein per se than like, for example, beef. But one of the notable things about pork is that it's a very uncommon ingredient in commercial pet foods. So you know, when we have these animals come in that have developed food sensitivities from eating highly processed chicken, highly processed beef, what have you, and we need to start looking at, okay, let's get them on food with a protein source, maybe they haven't had, pork is often a real good option because they probably haven't had it and be unlike things like duck venison, what have you, it's not prohibitively expensive. So as a practical matter, it works out nicely.
Dr. Ian Billinghurst 32:35
And that's been verified in my life as well. That was one of the first proteins I recommend when doing a single protein, or what everyone wants to call a novel protein because it's not widely used. And often, because pork has a profile of fatty acids more on the side of a longer chain and more unsaturated, it often contains those fatty acids that are so-called essential fatty acids that help heal the animal with whatever problem, usually an allergy or arthritis or whatever. Still, it is a brilliant food as a first go-to for these dogs with all these problems with other proteins. So absolutely agree with you.
Dr. Gary Richter 33:23
Yeah, yeah. Have you seen this? Because I've seen this come up a lot, I’ll have had a patient come in where the owner says, Oh, they you know that this dog cannot eat chicken. Anytime they eat chicken, terrible things happen. And you wind up putting them on a diet somewhere along the line; it has chicken in it, but it's fresh chicken, and they do great. It's an amazing difference in antigenicity between processed protein and the fresh protein.
Dr. Ian Billinghurst 33:56
This is hardly surprising when you think of the terrible denature thing that goes on in the production of processed pet food. To be sure, yes, but I agree with that as well. That's been my experience for a long, long time. A lot of these so-called allergies put them on real food, fresh food, whole food, and denatured food, and they're fine, and they're fine. They often do well because they miss out on some very important nutrients. Who knows what is in the beef because we don't understand everything about nutrition, we don't
Rob Ryan 34:36
We must understand the processing methods and how we do nature's proteins and nutrients right.
What We Don’t Understand About Pet Food? (34:40)
Dr. Gary Richter 34:48
Well, we understand it, and what we understand we don't like, but yeah, I mean, but those are, you know, of course, those are all the things that you know that these large pet food companies don't talk about even though the research is pretty detailed. I don't think there's any question about whether or not advanced glycation end products are bad for you. But you're not going to see anybody talk about that. That's making kibble even though they fall? Well, no.
Dr. Ian Billinghurst 35:21
I think something similar can be said for high blood sugar levels and the following hyper initial anemia. We all know from human studies how bad that is for mammals but ignored in the veterinary world.
Dr Gary Richter 35:36
Yep, absolutely.
Rob Ryan 35:37
So, Dr. Richter, you're talking about some people coming to you. And they're, you know, they're convinced of a chicken allergy, to use your example. I'm always fascinated by the business of being a vet. There was a time when I wanted to be a vet when I was young. And I thought, you know, how much of that business is managing emotions and personalities of people? Because, you know, you have, you know, people, just, let's say that our big worriers’ high anxiety, convinced of something that may not be and, or, you know, and certainly, here, we, we believe that the pet parents are the masters, they know, their, their dog or cat the most or their animal the best. And that is for sure, but can you talk a little bit about, you know, with all your experience in practice, like, you know, personalities, and, you know, different types of people? How, what is what it's like to be a vet, and explain that to the people so that they understand, look, you know, from the, from the, from the other side, this is important for them to get the best care?
Dr. Gary Richter 37:03
Yeah, it's a great question. And I've often said that they should make veterinarians minor in psychology and undergrad because there's so much of that involved, you know, I mean, anybody who thinks they're going into veterinary medicine because they don't want to deal with people needs to rethink their, their career choice. You know, every one of these animals is coming home is coming in with at least one person. And, and, you know, I think as, as we all know, you know, for most people that we see, you know, their pets are family, in many cases, they are more emotionally attached to their pets than they may be to their human family members. And there is there's so much, there's so much emotion and anxiety wrapped up in all this. And, and it can be, it can be not easy to untangle entities. And, you know, a lot of this is about gaining people's trust and getting them to hear what you have to say, you know, many people come in with, with, preconceived notions of what's going on are what they want to do. And, you know, I mean, you know, the internet is, is, is the greatest and the worst thing in the world, you know, people come in with a list of things that Dr. Google told them to do, or what was wrong with their dog. And, you know, and, you know, sometimes it makes sense, and sometimes it's just internet garbage. You know, so you must sort of wade through all that. Now, I think I am fortunate, you know, at this point in my career, where I've been doing this long enough, that there is a certain amount of implicit trust for most people who come in and see me. But it's, it can be very difficult. And, you know, I think many people also have sort of an eight; they have an innate distrust of the medical profession. And part of that deserved, for reasons we've just been discussing. Not all of it is deserved. I mean, I've had clients accuse me of being in this job for the money, which invariably makes me laugh. But, but, you know, as I said before, I mean, every veterinarian is, you know, practicing from the heart and doing the best job that they know how to do but, but unfortunately, you know, the state of medicine be a human or veterinary doesn't always do the patient the service that they deserve. And people remember that whether it's with this pet or a previous pet. So there's this certain suspicion, and you must break through that. And that's one of those things that takes time. And you know, it takes a lot of education and explanation. You know, and you have to sit down and explain to people what's going on, why it's going on, and why we need to do what we need to do because I think many veterinarians are so busy. So overworked that they don't have time to sit down and explain to somebody why I mean, you know, so I find that many people come into my office because their pets have been diagnosed with something. It’s been diagnosed correctly, but nobody explained to them what this means. So you know, somebody's cat is diagnosed with kidney disease. So the veterinarian says, here, you know, take this KD, this phosphate binder, and come back in a few weeks, and we'll recheck bloodwork. The problem is that the person has no idea why they're supposed to be doing what they're doing. And they're panicking. And then they're going to go online, and then they're going to read a bunch of crap. Or maybe they're going to read, and maybe they're going to read information similar to what I'm going to tell them. And then they're going to start to distrust their veterinarian about why didn't that person tell me anything like this. So part of it is about, you know, there's a reason why my initial patient consults are scheduled for an hour. Because you wind up having to sit down and kind of unwind a lot of what's already happened, to gain these, you know, to gain the trust of people to allow them, you know, to allow me to do what I need to do to help their pet. And I, you know, I wish that was a simpler process. But, you know, to tell you the truth, I have a very, very good friend, who, who is a human doctor, he's a physician who does kind of very, very similar work to what we do. And he deals with the same thing. You know, he has to deal with the same baggage and psychological issues that we do to get people to a point where they trust him to let him do what he needs to do.
The Importance Of Trust In Veterinary Medicine (42:12)
Dr. Ian Billinghurst 42:12
Trust has big issues. And Gary, I think one of the earliest points you touched on was that we’re dealing with people who have a small child, the dog or cat, and that child is helpless and dependent upon them. So that child will never grow up and leave home and become independent. And so this is an absolute worry for that person the entire time they own that animal. And as they get older and, and developed problems. Instead, a child probably grows out of most of their ill health as they age and become more independent, dependent, and castable. And so this, this is what we're dealing with. And we're dealing with an emotionally charged situation, where the stakes for the owner, pet parents, I'm still in the old way of thinking, but the pet parents are high. And they will have difficulty trusting this young person who doesn't explain anything. And just, which is what happens a lot of the times I see it, and who doesn't understand that tremendous emotional pool that's going on between the animal and the pet parent? And so anyway, yes. Whether we could ever produce a course that could teach that, I don't know. Sometimes it's very much up to how the individual veterinarian has been brought up and how simply intellectual they are, and not so empathetic, I think, in human medicine. Now, there's much interviewing before somebody is accepted into the course to see what sort of person they are. Will they make a good physician from that point of view? I don't know whether that happens in veterinary medicine at all. I'm not
Dr Gary Richter 44:10
I don't know, either. But I mean, you're very right. I mean, you know, so often, you'll see veterinarians who clinically are incredibly competent, but they can't make that connection with the client. And it's a real problem. If you're going to be a, if you're going to be a surgeon or an ER doc, well, that's fine, then, you know, maybe you can get away with that. But if you're going to do more general practice or long-term care, you have to be able to connect with people, or you will not be successful.
Dr. Ian Billinghurst 44:44
Some very reasonably incompetent vets can do very well simply because they have a good way with people.
Dr. Gary Richter 44:51
They talk a good game. It's true. I've seen that happen where people will come in, and they love their other veterinarian, and I look at the records, scratch my head, and I'm like, What is this person doing?
How To Communicate With Your Customers? (45:04)
Rob Ryan 45:04
It? Well, I have the same issue. I hear people have these problems many times; they've been with the same vet, but they say I love my vet. And I was I said, Well, I don't, you know, you don't need to have wanted to have dinner with them; you need to be able to communicate with them. So your vet doesn't have to be somebody. You want to have it over at your house for a barbecue, although that would be lovely. It has to be somebody that you have good communication with respect to reporting a trust, and, and cannot and could be honest with, and they can be honest with you. Because when we were talking earlier about the folks, you said, I don't think anybody gets in the veterinary profession. You know, they all want to do the best they can do for, you know, for their animals. And I believe that too, and you certainly don't go into the veterinary profession to be wealthy,
Dr Gary Richter 45:56
Super simple way easier way to make a living, that's for sure.
Rob Ryan 46:00
100% and so, but there are people who don't differ; they’re afraid of their customers and tend to go along with their customers and what their customers are. Maybe they need to do a better job communicating, and the veterinarians are assuming that you know this customer won't pay for this. So I'll give them this treatment instead. Does that happen a lot? Do you think?
Dr. Gary Richter 46:35
Well, I mean, I think it happens and happens in certain scenarios. I mean, certainly, people can fall into that trap of assuming how much money somebody has or how much they will pay. You know, I used to have a professor. And I've always remembered this, who always said when you put together a treatment plan, give them the Cadillac plan, and if necessary, work your way down from there, but always tell them everything. And then and then see what's actually possible. And that is exactly the way to go about doing it. I mean, never make the assumption that, oh, this person can't do this or won't do this. People surprise you on both ends, you know, people that you know, people that roll up and a $200,000 car, say, " Oh, I'm not paying for that blood panel. That happens. And you know, I mean, there's only so much you can do; you can't make people do anything. But yeah, I think that kind of thing happens. And I think there's always going to be a certain degree; everybody has their sort of implicit biases when it comes to interacting with other people. As healthcare practitioners, you have to do everything you can to be, you know, to check that at the door and treat everybody the same. I often remind myself, even if I, even if I find the pet owner troublesome, that it's not the pet’s fault that their owner is troublesome. So, I will always do my best to offer the best possible care for that animal. Because, like I say, it's not their fault. They're owners in it. So we’re, you know, we’re, we're, we're ultimately retreating the animal, the owners just along for the ride and writing a check. As it turns out,
Dr. Ian Billinghurst 48:27
That’s right. All I've ever done in my practice is try to empower people with knowledge and let them make a choice. So true; assume nothing about what choice they might make. But in many cases, they will make a choice, not based on the best outcome for the animal but on what suits them at the time, knowing full well that they'll probably pay more in the long run, and more grief will be involved. Still, it says in, but they have the choice; they have the power because they know the likely outcomes of each scenario. And I think that's important as a professional; that’s what we must do. Just give them the choice, but give them the power of knowing and actually understanding the likely outcomes of the choice.
Dr. Gary Richter 49:14
I would agree, and from a personal perspective, that's the kind of policy that you can go home at the end of the day and feel good about what you did. You know, even if that person made a decision that you don't necessarily agree with, you know, that you allowed them to make the right choice and like, like you said, we can't make them make a decision we want them to, but we can make sure that we gave them the option to do so. And you have to be able to go to bed at night.
Supplementation For Dogs (49:46)
Rob Ryan 49:46
Yeah, yeah. As the only non-vet in this conversation. I consider myself an expert customer of veterinary care in this particular video. Uh, I think it’s important to say that it's also the customer's responsibility to get to know their vet and build a relationship with their vet. However, that looks and has good communication have good questions. And, you know, ultimately, you get to decide if this somebody is in alignment with you and if not leave, but if they are. They there's, there's a, there's a working relationship that's possible there, have a nice give and take, be organized, have things written down and, and have a nice discussion so that when you leave, you feel like, boy, I, you know, I got exactly what I needed out of that session.
Dr Gary Richter 50:47
Sure. And, you know, and, you know, and that's so important that, like, I need people to walk out the door feeling like, they got what they were looking for, even if they didn't get the answer that they were looking for that that they were heard, and they got the information, and that they have a much more clear understanding of what is the landscape in front of them. You know, I mean, that's, that's the best that we can do. And at that point, it's just a function of, you know, as he had said, giving people the opportunity to make the right decision.
Rob Ryan 51:25
Yeah. So, let's move over to supplements.
Dr. Ian Billinghurst 51:30
How we got all of this was like a discussion on pet vet client relationships and should go for somebody out there.
Rob Ryan 51:41
Yeah, yeah. Let's talk about supplements. So in my world, where I'm on social media, looking at people interacting with our posts, or, you know, other posts that we're involved with. And our customer advocacy has got our customer support questions, and I look at almost every single one. And there are people I see as the opposite of most pet parents in the world who aren't giving supplements. They're the people I come in contact with or are giving too many supplements. And what was your experience with that? And what do you think about that? And what, what potentially, what potential issues there can be with, you know, just throwing this soup of, of supplements and, you know, chemicals, in some cases, synthetic, and others, but how do you think about supplements for? For dogs? Let's focus on dogs.
Dr Gary Richter 52:49
Sure. You know, I think, I think for almost any animal, you could, you know, based on what's going on with them, one could justify some degree of supplementation; I think the reality is, is when you, you know, even when you look at the research into, into nutrition, we're in this funny spot in time right now, where, like, the new the nutritional contents of food is not what it was 50 years ago, soils are depleted animals are raised differently. So you know, a tomato today does not have the same nutritional content as a tomato from 1960. So even if they're eating a whole food diet, it may be that they could benefit from some degree of supplementation. Your point is very well taken that it is certainly possible to over-supplement, you know, from the perspective of, you know, you can cause gastrointestinal issues by giving them too much. There's a limit to what anybody can absorb at any moment. So if you're throwing 1000 things in there, only so much of it’s getting in them anyway. I'm much more of a fan of rotating through things over time. You know, so we'll do a couple of supplements now. Maybe we'll switch it up in a few months; we’ll do something else. We'll do that based on how the animals are doing and their appearance. There are very, very few supplements that I think are kind of just win-win across the board. If I had to pick some, I mean, probably, the two that you more or less can't go wrong with would be a probiotic or an omega fatty acid supplement. Anything else, I think, requires a little bit more discerning thought about what is necessary when but yeah, I mean, and beyond that is, you know, it depends on the animal, the age, the lifestyle, the diet, their genetics, there are so many permutations out there, and I know that not everybody has access to a holistic veterinarian to the kind of talk to you about these things. And the best advice I could give people is, if you are going to supplement, you know, just do your due diligence and pick high-quality things and don't give too much at once. Ultimately, the dog probably isn't going to like it anyway. Yeah,
Dr. Ian Billinghurst 55:22
I think that's one of the things I've noticed over the years, Gary. I agree. Sometimes they get more supplements and food because a dog rejects all this stuff. So I, at that point, cut everything out and just fed them food for a while. Yeah, exactly. And keep the diet fairly simple, too. And then we can move on to something else. But yeah. I think supplements have their place. But in many cases, they're overdone.
Dr Gary Richter 55:52
I agree
Rob Ryan 55:54
And so would you even say, focusing on the omegas and the probiotics that even rotating omegas? And all of that is important?
Dr Gary Richter 56:04
Oh, yeah, I do think it's important. Rotating probiotics is important. You know, omega is a little bit less variability out there than there would be, would say, the various probiotic strains. And one interesting thing now is that you can send blood out and get an omega fatty acid level on a dog, which is pretty cool. Because I have found as even some of my patients that are eating really good diets are deficient. It gives you a little bit more of a quantitative idea of how much they should be getting supplemented; some of them get a fair bit more than intuitively, and you might think some of them less. So it's always nice when you can quantify these things. Nonetheless, yeah, I mean, just working your way, working your way through different things over time. I often remind people that the best way to keep animals healthy is to feed them the nutrients they are evolutionarily designed to thrive on. And the two things you can say with 100% Certainty are that no organism evolved eating processed food, and no organism evolved eating the same thing every day. You know, that's, that's, that's a full stop. Like, you can't argue that. I hope you can't argue that. And, you know, that means variety, fresh foods, and variety. And that's what holds for supplements as well.
Dr. Ian Billinghurst 57:40
Well, that is, yeah, that's such a simple and powerful message. Well, it is done. Go. Thank you.
Dr Gary Richter 57:46
Yeah, thank you.
How Do You Think About Supplements? (57:22)
Rob Ryan 57:47
Yeah. So do you think there? What do you think about Supplement? I’m super interested in talking about supplements because I'm a guy who would give my puppies supplements, and now I don't, and I figured out that, you know, there's a time and a place for them. There's no need to go overboard in. I used to be heavy on antioxidants. And early on. And my rationale for that was protecting them from aging, and, you know, cell damage and all of that. But, you know, now I, you know, go very, very easy early in life, and then, you know, I know that the time is going to come as they get older where I'm going to need a little bit of extra assistance, a little bit of extra—a few extra tools in my tool belt. So do you obviously, every dog is different from, you know, genetics to epigenetics to where they live and what they're dealing with and health issues? But do you think about them in terms of knowing anything? I don't want even to steer you in any direction.
Dr Gary Richter 59:03
Well, you have just, you've just opened up a bit of a can of worms as far as the conversation goes so. So, you know, there's a whole exploding area of science of longevity medicine that has a whole brand new field of research that is receiving much attention on the human side. And you know, and it will come as no surprise to anybody, that the aging process is complicated. It is not one dimensional or two-dimensional thing. Multiple processes are happening in the body that ultimately leads to aging. And you know, when we start to think about longevity as a goal, we have to look at multiple facets. So sure, antioxidants can be beneficial. But you're only your own accessing a small, a small piece of the big picture, you know, you brought up epigenetics, that's a really important thing, which by the way, you can measure now in dogs and cats as well, you can get, you can actually get an epigenetic age in a dog or a cat, which is, which is really fascinating from a perspective of finding out how your therapeutics are working. But now we need to start to look at things like mitochondrial health; we need to start looking at cellular senescence. You know, the conversation goes on and on. And this is a big field in human medicine; it’s not getting much attention on the veterinary side. Since you brought it up, I have two books coming out third quarter this year; Longevity for Dogs and Longevity for cats take a very specific look at what we know about the science of longevity and how to apply it to our pets. That ranges anywhere from diet, lifestyle, exercise, supplements, pharmaceuticals, more cutting aids therapies, like stem cell therapy, regenerative medicine, and what have you. Some of that stuff is available now. A lot more of it will be available very soon. But that's a whole, that's a whole other conversation as far as how we can gear our thoughts and our treatment processes towards a goal of longevity specifically.
Rob Ryan 1:01:34
Wow, that's great. I just found out you had that book coming out. So are you looking into what you said, the things that are out, some things are coming? I mean, I'm interested in the things that, obviously, the research and the money first starts with people. And then it ends up getting into animals typically, usually, even though, in some cases, some of our supplements and medicines are tested on dogs. But, like, I'm starting molecular hydrogen, and I'm already thinking it's this recirculating antioxidant in your system. And I'm already thinking Gee, and I wish I wish somebody would tell me if I could give this to Gus Right now, you know, and if it would be safe, and you know, and worthwhile. And that's the kind of thing that always happens to me. So have you looked into molecular hydrogen? By the way, I'll ask you.
Dr Gary Richter 1:02:39
It is a really interesting supplement; it does a lot for people. On the positive, you absolutely can give it to dogs. It’d be interesting to figure out the logistics of how to do that. Because when I take molecular hydrogen, you're effectively dissolving a tablet in water and drinking that water. But you have to drink that water within minutes of the tablet dissolving. So I'm unsure how to convince my dog to drink exactly when I want him to. Oh, I
Rob Ryan 1:03:13
know how to do that. Coconut water.
Dr Gary Richter 1:03:17
Fair enough. Yeah. I mean, but that's an excellent thing to bring up. Molecular hydrogen is a tool many longevity physicians use for longevity and to help performance from an exercise perspective. It does a lot, so, so short, that's absolutely on the list. I mean, Gary,
Dr. Ian Billinghurst 1:03:42
explain how molecular hydrogen assists in longevity.
Rob Ryan 1:03:48
Thank thank you for not asking me that question.
Dr Gary Richter 1:03:50
Because I know what it's doing is, it's provided because of the way so so when you're dissolving hydrogen into water, what's happening molecularly is you're also freeing up oxygen molecules. So when you drink this, it provides both extra oxygenation and antioxidant support to the body. So it's making the body more resilient to stress, both physiologic and, you know, and more metabolic stress to help the body be more resilient. And, you know, when repair tissue damage.
Rob Ryan 1:04:37
You know, I'm going to send you a podcast on this.
Dr. Ian Billinghurst 1:04:40
I am fascinated because this is something I hadn't heard of. And I'm thinking of protons and mitochondria, and yeah, well,
Dr Gary Richter 1:04:51
You’re going down the right avenue.
Dr. Ian Billinghurst 1:04:54
Okay. Look into that one because it sounds fascinating.
Hormetic Stress And Your Body’s Response (1:04:59)
Rob Ryan 1:04:59
There are so many. I'm so excited about your Oh, sorry. I'm very excited about your book because there are therapies, ozone, hyperbaric, and on and on. That'd be hyperbaric to create stem cells. We were starting to learn that. And naturally, it stimulates stem cell growth. I mean, it's it also lengthens telomeres. Yeah. It's amazing stuff. That is just all it is. Is oxygen. It was pushing oxygen into your body.
Dr Gary Richter 1:05:30
Yep. Yeah.
Dr. Ian Billinghurst 1:05:32
Oxygen is a poison.
Dr Gary Richter 1:05:35
Oxygen is a very interesting molecule. Because I mean, like when, when you're doing ozone therapy, effectively, you're providing hormetic stress to the body. And you're putting; you’re putting an oxidizing agent into the body to stimulate the body to overproduce antioxidants. So it's a fascinating balance of how all of this works.
Dr. Ian Billinghurst 1:06:01
And really, what it comes down to is how we are and how we evolved for these processes to be in place. Yep. So again, it comes back to evolution and understanding who and what we are, where we came from, and how we can harness those forces for our health and well-being.
Dr Gary Richter 1:06:20
Yes, the term du jour is biohacking.
Dr. Ian Billinghurst 1:06:25
Yes. Yeah.
Rob Ryan 1:06:27
Yep. And hormesis is a big one because I mentioned earlier that I was giving my dogs antioxidants and trying to protect them from Father Time. Now we know that you need a little bit of resistance and a little bit of damage so that you have your body can react to it. And this is Ian's point and the evolutionary approach to your body. You know, evolution has figured these things out. And here we are, sometimes armed with a little bit of knowledge, trying to intervene, and we may or may need to do the right thing, which is, you know, super confusing. That's why you need a great vet and a great book.
Dr. Ian Billinghurst 1:07:19
Well, I think of somebody like Dawkins. Dawkins might not have been, so he wrote The Selfish Gene. And the whole thing is that once we've reproduced, we're no longer of value to our genes.
Dr Gary Richter 1:07:34
That is the problem. Yes.
Dr. Ian Billinghurst 1:07:36
So if I go back to a property I once had, on the top of the hills were these gnarled, twisted, ugly old trees that were centuries old. And they persisted in this leached soil with very little nutrient, and down the valley below, with these tall trees, beautiful trees that rose quickly, and then seneste very quickly as well, they died quickly. And so we have a situation where we have to fool our body into believing we haven't reproduced, and part of that appears to be will we have that we haven't understood the lack of calories. And now we understand that regarding fasting and all sorts of things. But the stress on the body. Yes, it's so it's all part of it. We are so getting the right stress, getting the right deficiency, only sometimes getting a complete and balanced meal, actually having incomplete meals in a nutritional sense. These are all factors that contribute to longevity.
Dr Gary Richter 1:08:44
Well, doesn’t it all return to how our bodies evolved? Yes. Right. Like life was rough back in the day. Yes, your body needs a certain degree of metabolic stress to thrive.
Rob Ryan 1:09:01
Yeah, it's very interesting. I could go another hour on this stuff with you. And we will need to have you back once the book comes out. So please email me. I will not
Dr. Ian Billinghurst 1:09:11
I have to get a copy of this because I'm fascinated. Yeah.
Dr. Gary Richter 1:09:15
Very well. I will you know what? Somebody can send me your email. I already know it's not out yet. But I'll send you the manuscript.
Rob Ryan 1:09:24
Great, great. Well, we've already gone over time. So let's review here. So we want to make sure people can find you. And obviously, one of the first places we can send people is your website. Dr.GaryRichter.com. Right? Yes. Great. And then your food treats and supplements. Ultimatepetnutrition.com. Correct. Beautiful, beautiful. I looked at your supplements, and you know there's a couple, there's a couple tells when you look at supplements, you immediately know if either the supplement company knows what they're doing and or they're high quality. And I was very impressed with yours and their beautiful supplements.
Dr Gary Richter 1:10:10
Thank you. Appreciate that. Yeah, yep.
Rob Ryan 1:10:13
Well, thank you again, Gary, for the time, and we look forward to next time.
Dr Gary Richter 1:10:17
Yeah, me as well. Thank
Dr. Ian Billinghurst 1:10:18
you. And been a real pleasure talking to you. And I'm looking forward to your book. And thank you, sir. I
Dr. Gary Richter 1:10:25
I will get it over to you.
Rob Ryan 1:10:27
Thank you. All right. Thanks, everybody, for joining us, Gary. Stay with us real quick. And while we end And thanks, everybody, for joining us. Have a good day.