Why We're Here Today Specifically On This Day 1:24

• Introducing Julie Ann Lee and Why She is Here Today
• A New Species-Oriented Probiotic
• Ancestral Feeding and How Wolves Vs Dogs Eat
• Raw Fed Dogs and Gut Health
• The Trifecta of Health, Prebiotics, Probiotics and Probiotics
• Prebiotics and Their Post-Biotic Effects

How Do You Know What Wolves Eat? 9:15

• How To Research What Wolves Eat
• The Importance Of Diversity In Carnivore Studies
• Understanding What Wolves Are Eating In The Winter
• The Post-Biotic Effects Of Wolves
• Probiotics Naturally Suppress Pathogenic Bacteria
• Vets Have Asked Rob To Teach Students About Gut Health

How To Figure Out How To Do It? 15:31

• Gut Health Education And Conventional Medicine
• Greenwashing And Gut Health Is A Fad
• Does Prebiotics Determine The Makeup Of Probiotics In The Gut
• 30 Billion Colony Forming Units Of Bacteria
• Every Single Prebiotic In Nature Has Its Buddy
• The Wolf Strain Of Prebiotics

The Importance Of Vegetables In The Microbiome 22:58

• Dogs Today Could Never Have The Same Diet As Wolves
• The Importance Of Diversity And Diversity
• The Importance Of A Large 25% Vegetable Intake For Animals
• The Carnivore Diet

Dogs And The Microbiome 28:23

• Raw Meaty Bones, Veg And Awful
• The Perfect Kidney Diet For Dogs
• Measuring Bovine And Creatinine Levels
• The Importance Of Local-Grown Vegetables And Bones
• Outsmarting Nature By Trying To Outsmart Nature
• Mushrooms Are Brilliant. Nature Is Brilliant

The Value Of True Science 37:19

• True Science Admits That We Don't Know Everything
• Vets Are Technicians, Not Scientists
• Living In Nature Vs. Living In Nature's House
• Natural Animal Supplement Companies
• One Of The Live Watchers Is Going To Win A Free Probiotic
• Gut Health Is An Evolution

The Importance Of Diversity In The Diet 43:43

• Mimic What A Goth Would Have Looked Like 200 Years Ago
• Prebiotics And Species-Oriented Food
• No One Type Of Probiotic For Every Dog
• Two Ways Of Gut Health In Different Stages
• Homeopathic Remedies And Prebiotics To Help Prevent Chronic Disease
• Stress And Stress On Gut Health

What Is Your Vision For The Company? 51:00

• Health For Convenience In The Supplement Space
• No Washing Products, Only Organic Farms
• Unique And Special Work In The Gut Space
• Question From Australia

How The Wolf Strain Can Be Used Therapeutically Prophylactically 56:13

• Vision For Wolf Strains In Canine Health
• Introducing The Wolf Strain To Dogs
• The First Thing That Changed Was His Emotional State
• Three-quarters of Dogs Are Immune-Modulated

The Ability Of Probiotics To Modulate Immune System 1:01:40

• Chronic Inflammatory Disease Is A Chronic Inflammatory Disease Process
• The Wolf Strain Is Normalizing
• Gastric Viability Of Human Probiotics Vs Dog Probiotics
• Stable Bacterial Species In Raw Fed Animals
• The Goal Is To Have A Specific Template For Woodlot Owners
• Supporting The Environment In General

Supporting Regenerative Farming And Mushrooms 1:09:21

• Supporting Regenerative Farming And The Greening Of The Environment
• Three Wolf Strains Of Probiotics
• One Species And One Prebiotic In The Future
• The Process Of Growing Probiotics
• Wolves In The Wild Do Not Need Probiotic Supplementation
• Wolves Are Adaptable And Resilient

When Will The Veterinary Profession Catch Up With Nutrition? 1:15:48

• When The Veterinary Profession Will Catch Up With Nutrition
• Vets Suicide Is The Highest In America
• Why The Vet Industry Is Failing Big Time
• How To Make A Choice
• Collaboration And Collaboration Is The Biggest Thing
• Regenerative Farming And Nature

It’s A Community, And We’re A Community 1:23:54

• The Importance of a Good Relationship with a Vet
• The Evolution of the Veterinary Profession

Rob Ryan  00:00

Hey, everybody! Welcome to our live broadcast. We are alive. I want to let you know how excited we are because you're Gussy's gut. We're all about the dog microbiome. And we're excited to have this whole show about another way to help with your dog's microbiome. Something cool and exciting: It fits in both my and my partner's theme of species-appropriate, biologically appropriate feeding, and ways of health. And speaking of my partner, please welcome Dr. Ian Billinghurst today.

Dr. Ian Billinghurst 00:47

Good morning, everybody. Depending on where you are, it will be in the afternoon or evening. And hello, Rob.

Rob Ryan  00:53

Hello. Well, we're very excited for today's show. I know you are, too, getting to talk about the gut and the wolf.

Dr. Ian Billinghurst 01:06

So, with someone who knows some incredible stuff, we can all learn from it.

Rob Ryan  01:12

Yes. Well, you cued her up perfectly. So, our guest today is Julie from Adored Beast Apothecary. Welcome, Julie.

Why We're Here Today Specifically On This Day 1:24

Julie Anne Lee 01:24

Hi, how are you? Great.

Dr. Ian Billinghurst 01:27

Julie, good to see you. Again.

Julie Anne Lee 01:30

Nice to see you, too. As always.

Rob Ryan  01:33

Let's get right into this because it's a mix of an announcement and an educational show we're doing today. Right? So I don't want to, you know, bury the lead. And I don't like to announce you because you're here. Why don't we start by telling us why we're here today, specifically on this day?

Julie Anne Lee 01:57

The main reason is because we want something unique to the market. My company's been in good health for many, many years. That's an extensive background of mine at my vet hospital. So we have. Do you want me to spill the beans now?

Rob Ryan  02:20

Because that'll help us launch the Yeah, let's spill it.

Julie Anne Lee 02:24

So, I've been working with gut health for a long time. We are evolving, as everything does. But the exciting thing about our evolution is that we're looking back to develop. So basically, what I'm saying is that I believe that in health, whether you're looking at dogs or people or whatever, we have to look at our ancestors to see where we're going wrong so that we can move farther forward, like ahead with less chronic disease. So we came out with a species-oriented probiotic five years ago from a dog, and then we did a cat one and a horse one. But the one we just launched now is from Wolf from Wolf. So it's a group of wolves that are a very, very old colony, our pack and from Alberta, and that we've been following for a while, and the feces that we have isolated and made the probiotics from that group of wolves.

Rob Ryan  03:36

Great. Okay, so this is a wolf-strain probiotic. Right? Correct.

Dr. Ian Billinghurst 03:42

Okay. Can I ask a quick question? Julie? Are these wild wolves? Or are they a colony of captive wolves living in the wild?

Julie Anne Lee 03:54

Which other wild or wild wolves?

Dr. Ian Billinghurst 03:57

So, wild?

Rob Ryan  03:59

Okay. Interesting. This fits why the three of us are in excellent company: we all believe in it and have many similarities. And we have much common ground. But the big thing that guides this conversation is that we look back to tens of thousands, even millions, of years of ancestral feeding when we think about, you know, not just the gut but also feeding and how our dogs are eating. Let's get into this more. So one of the things that I was struck by, in particular, was how you think about how wolves versus dogs eat and how the best, even the best raw-fed, domestic dogs today aren't fed the same way. Mr. So, can you go into some of that as wolves were?

Julie Anne Lee 05:04

Um, are you talking about dogs that are on raw-fed diets? Okay, yeah,

Rob Ryan  05:09

Let's focus on the raw-fed dogs and get people up to speed. Yeah.

Julie Anne Lee 05:14

Well, gut health is a massive component. And that whole, when you look at the gut as an environment, instead of looking at the gut just as a gut, many things affect the gut. And stress is a big one. Boredom is a big one. So, there are a lot of different things that affect the gut. So, when you look at a wolf's diet, the most significant thing is the diversity in which they eat. So not just eating beef every day, not just eating lamb every day, not just eating whatever, they're consuming different things all the time. And because they're ingesting everything, like the brain, the eyeballs, the gut, and the contents of the gut, They're getting hundreds of different species of prebiotics. So they're getting different kinds of vegetation. They're getting different types of berries; they're getting different types of all different kinds of flora, right? So all other things We couldn't replicate that.

Regarding urbanized dogs, the suitable dogs living with us, we don't even do that. We can't even do that ourselves. We can't even go out and eat the diverse amount of vegetables, meats, and other things our ancestors would have eaten. Or, you know, we look at tribes. I followed in. I've done a lot of research on the oldest living people. And they brought it back down to the diversity of the gut, the end, and not just the bacteria. But what the bacteria feed on is what the bacteria feed on, which gives the postbiotic effect. So, what offers the health benefits of modulating the immune system or creating short-chain fatty acids? Those are the synergistic processes of the bacteria and the prebiotics. So when we think about wool for something ancestral like that, it would be hard-pressed to recreate that in a diet.

Rob Ryan  07:59

Yeah. And you're speaking about the trifecta of health. The pro-pre-post? Yes.

Julie Anne Lee 08:07

Yeah. Yeah. So. So for the lot. I've been doing microbiology and research for a long time. And the last, I would say, the previous five years, we've geared it up to look at the types of prebiotics, the types of what happens with what bacteria and what, what prebiotic, and what does that postbiotic effect, because at the end of the day, if we don't know that, as a company and someone that is producing species-oriented prebiotics, It will likely do this because I only see it if I research the postbiotic effects. I can say generically what a probiotic does or what a prebiotic does. But I wanted to know what our prebiotics did. I wanted to know what combination a wolf or a dog-specific species did with which prebiotics and what the postbiotic effects were.

How Do You Know What Wolves Eat? 9:15

Dr. Ian Billinghurst 09:15

Question: Do you research these wolves? How do you analyze what they eat?

Julie Anne Lee 09:26

They're the ones that we used. It's mostly from

Dr. Ian Billinghurst 09:34

the food I'm talking about. How do you figure out what foods they eat because you spoke of them eating berries and vegetables? And gut contents?

Julie Anne Lee 09:46

Yeah, from the typography.

Dr. Ian Billinghurst 09:49

So you're working it out from fecal samples? Yes. In how you determine because looking at people like Mick claimed that the wolf in his wolf parks, which because they're very well fed, I suspect, never a gut I spoke to, very early in my career, I had the great fortune of having a lady who worked for the Mounties. She was a graduate of veterinary science and medicine. She researched the wolves in northern Canada, in the wilds up there, where I learned it was species-appropriate for them to eat frozen food. And many of the animals she would find did a lot of, for whatever reason, they opened a lot of wolf carcasses up and looked at the stomach contents. And of course, I also looked at many of the studies on foxes around the Canberra district in Australia. It was from studies like these that I realized the importance of diversity. Just understanding that the so-called carnivores ate a much wider variety of foods than most people would suspect when I wrote Give Your Dog A Bone and other writings that have always been in the back of my mind, so I was just a little bit curious as to how you analyzed or got to understand what these wolves were eating because I know for sure, there would be no war, As opposed to the Mounties where my client was working so long ago, you would not be sacrificing wolves to have a look at their stomachs deliberately.

Julie Anne Lee 11:44

You know, for dominantly just from watching them see what's left in the carcasses when they're after they've been eating it, what that species means, like, what that rabbit might be eating, what that deer might be eating, what the moose bite might be eating, what that most might be eating because, in the wintertime, they do eat many mice. So, even the diversity of the kinds of animals they eat is enormous. And then what is that most eat? Because you can bet your bottom dollar that most are consuming the entire content when they eat. They chew and swallow. And you know, what is it that most people eat in the winter, like pine needles, which have vast amounts of antioxidants? What are they like? There's there; it's almost impossible to figure out precisely what they would be eating or what's in those feces. But what's not impossible to figure out is the postbiotic effects, which fascinate me most. It's like, I remember the first time we did the canine one. And we looked at it, and we looked at how it contains, suppresses, or mitigates the number of pathogenic bacteria, and the bacteria that it does that with are E. coli, Salmonella, and Clostridium, like all the ones that vets are scared of that dogs, are going to get and pass on to people. I don't know this; it directly suppresses it. And that made so much sense to me. It's like, well, of course, that probiotic and, to do that, of course, that bacteria is going to do that, or they wouldn't have evolved.

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  13:58

right? It's a matter of balance. And it's a matter of organisms living together in harmony, which is also what it's about. But let me also make another point, Rob; I'm just jumping in here. However, have you ever received a request from a veterinary faculty to instruct students on gut health?

Julie Anne Lee 14:20

I have, and you know, what's so interesting was six and a half years ago. I know a little. Six and a half years ago, I was asked by Prince Edward Island in Canada to go and talk about gut health, and I did my presentation. And this brilliant young veterinarian asked me a question, and she said, My mom has been telling me about this for so long, and I subscribed to everything you're saying. I find it so attractive. But can I ask you? Is it true? We don't use species-specific probiotics on our companion animals. And I was just floored for a second.

I said, Yes, it's true. We don't. And she said, Why? And I said it because nobody's done it. And I remember driving home, and it's like a four-and-a-half-hour drive. And I was driving home, going, okay, there goes the roof of my house, there go my tires on my truck, because I was then just like, This is what we have to do.

How To Figure Out How To Do It? 15:31

Julie Anne Lee 15:31

Like, we have to figure this out, we got to figure out how to do it, how to do it so that we collect the research so that we're taken seriously. Right, and trying to keep it close to the authentic purpose of what we're trying to achieve. So it was once asked me, but they're still doing it and doing a lot of gut health. It worries me that they slide into conventional medicine; they still have to conventionalize it somehow. And this is no slag. It's it's how they're it's how universities work. Right? So

Dr. Ian Billinghurst 16:27

How are they sliding it into the food that all vets recommend? Is it carbohydrate-based and ultra-cooked? Needs more genuine nutrition and protection? Are they sliding into that slot?

Julie Anne Lee 16:42

Yeah, that's my point. It's crazy. Like I watched television commercials, I see this beautiful dog running in nature and, like an, you know, begins with a P, and I won't say the whole word. It's a dog food with probiotics. So, to me, they're greenwashing. It's their probiotics, and gut health is such a coined term. Now everyone's looking at it. It's not saying; let's say it's a fad. It's not a fad. But it's the thing. Now it's what's, you know, industries are

Dr. Ian Billinghurst 17:22

making a question to ask me to ask one now and another later if we have time. The question is this: Many rural feeders will listen and look at this. And as they've known, I've always recommended vegetables pulverized to resemble gut contents. Can you explain? Please tell me your view on whether or not you addressed the question of vegetables' fibers being prebiotics. Does that determine what probiotics are grown? In other words, the probiotics we feed regarding vegetables and other things? To what extent does that determine the makeup of the probiotics within the gut? A lot?

Julie Anne Lee  18:13

A lot. I remember when we came out with our first products, and I used I wouldn't use anything. I told you guys this before, but I wouldn't use the essential sugars we see in all the other probiotics on the market. So I dug down and looked at what, how, and what animals would be eating. What would the prey be eating that wolves and stuff would be eating? And one thing I found is that there are grasses, berries, and vegetation that these prey guys would eat, but everybody that ate throughout the year would be tree bark. So, I used it mainly as a prebiotic because I wanted to mimic it. But when you're when you're thinking food, right? Vegetables are a vast source of prebiotics. But what concerns me is that to get the number of vegetables, even with the number of probiotics that people are feeding now, it's, um, it's scary. It's a frightening thought for me because we're getting 30 billion colony-forming units; that's why when you look at our probiotics, probiotics don't even have oriented ones; I use a ton of prebiotics. There are many prebiotics and no fillers or anything in our products. But I use many prebiotics because you will wind up with a leaky gut if you don't. Suppose you're feeding a ton of probiotics. In that case, even if it's a fear, even if it's yogurt, Even if it's whatever you're going to, you're going to, you have to be careful that then you're feeding enough prebiotic, or the native bacteria, which doesn't leave the gut will start to ingest the gut lining and create leaky gut if your dog doesn't have leaky gut already. So, to answer your questions, I've never thought, like, I've never been a component. Like, I've never been on the fence about just feeding meat. I've constantly fed my animals. I've always recommended at my clinic lots of vegetables for their diet. So when the vegetables are fermenting in the gut, absolutely everything in nature has its component and its buddy, like when you talk about companion planting, with plants, right things like that. Every prebiotic that goes into that animal or person's gut will have a propensity to form or feed a specific bacteria. Do you know what I'm saying? So, the more diverse we can get into the gut, the more varied prebiotics, the more variety we will contact with different natural bacteria. So when. That's really, that's always been my philosophy. And that's why with this wolf strain, and that's why I won't just use sugar because if you're giving sugar in a prebiotic, in a probiotic as their prebiotic, they're getting the same prebiotic that's going to have the propensity to the same and feed the same bacterias.

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  22:08

And not only that jelly. So, people who feed carbohydrate-based foods are fed a sugar probiotic. So they're getting this one food, which could be more appropriate for both the dog and the gut, bacteria, or gut organisms. Yes, thank you so much for that answer. Because a long ago, when I was producing the diet for dogs, I said, Look, I don't know why half of this stuff is working. But as long as we try and mimic how our dogs evolved, we will get the right job done if we do that. And we will find out later why it works. And we are finding out more and more. And you're contributing to that in, Well, in this particular way, and so many other ways as well, of course, but thank you, Rob; we're going to hand back to you because I've been monopolizing this conversation.

The Importance Of Vegetables In The Microbiome 22:58

Rob Ryan  22:58

Now, this is great. I love to sit back and learn. And I've heard a lot of exciting things. So, there are a couple of things that interest me. So, Julie, you mentioned that dogs today could never have the same diet as wolves. I agree with that. And, you know, you said some of the reasons why they're not able to, you know, graze the way wolves are, etc. And also, you know, we have over-sterilized their environment. And we've also, by living with them, learned that we can affect their biome. So, our biome affects their biome. So when you're sitting next to them, sleeping with them, whatever it is, these biomes are there. There's so much that we can all admit that we don't know about the biome. It's it's, it's massive; we'll find out as the cosmos itself. There's, that's in

Julie Anne Lee  24:01

My thing, right? Yeah.

Rob Ryan  24:05

Yeah, we know a little bit to make us dangerous in space. We know a little bit to make us complex in the gut. And what the big companies have done is they've oversimplified something complicated. And they have made us think that this little pill, powder, and slight chew is all we need for gut health. The truth is that diversity dynamics and enzymatic life are really what men, you know, all of that mixture, which is super complicated to sell, is all part of excellent microbiome health and, you know, rotating foods, rotating vegetables. So, I appreciate you saying this Because that's something that people need to keep saying repeatedly. And then I will say on this last thing you got, you and Ian just talked about the amount of vegetables. I like to hear, just for the audience, how much of the meal you think should be vegetable, and then also from Ian, to remind the audience if they still need to read his book.

Julie Anne Lee  25:24

Yeah, well, I'm always I'm always I go; I always go in front of the fire when it comes to stuff like that. My animals—my dogs—never get less than 25% vegetables. And I try and also make sure, so that's the other thing: we're dealing with raw food; we're dealing with Health Canada; we're dealing with the FDA, right? So it's tough to get; there are whole food, like, complete food diets coming out now, which is fantastic, where they grind the entire animal. But there are still certain things they don't want you to use or parts of the body that they don't want you to use, and you have to remove certain things before you grind them. So I think that, for me, a significant 25% is what I always do, but I always make sure that I can find that I'm lucky because I live on a farm. So, I have access to all kinds of what people would think of as gross and disgusting things. But because I'm such an animal advocate, I believe everything, like a vegetarian, should be used. But when it comes to a carnivore diet, you have to ensure that we're eating; they're eating everything, right, every single solitary thing. So I don't know what ends, you know, how much you recommend, like, and you know, the other exciting thing is that when we say that, we're, we're trying, like, for me, I try hard not to overwhelm people because if people are going out and purchasing their food, their raw food, they're buying one that they trust and has a specific percentage and, but then they're coming home. And for me, it's like, okay, if there's a vegetable that you're making at home that you know for sure is not in that food, add it, you know, or purchase food, but then add different exciting new things that aren't in that food, like. I think, you know, something, like you're producing would fill that gap. Right. Like, that's the beautiful thing about that is that you're there; there is that gap. So, yeah, I have been fortunate with my animals. So that's been my thing. But I do want Ian to speak. I want to return to that galaxy because it's essential.

Rob Ryan  28:15

Good. I could talk about that for a whole other hour. Right. Great. All righty, and you're on vegetables. How much?

Dogs And The Microbiome 28:23

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  28:23

Well, I actually, within my summit recently, I did a, let me think I did a

JJulie Anne Lee  28:38

Oh, yeah, we can see it. Yeah.

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  28:41

So, the bottom of the bottom was raw meaty bones. Because the dog is a scavenger, and says the 8010 10 thing probably applies to the cat as a whole food prey, but the dog is more of a scavenger. Then we had veg and awful at around 15% each, so we had about 60% Raw meaty bones, and then veg and horrible came in at 15. And then we had the rest: poor substitutes, what I call poor substitutes to cover all the disgusting things, including soil, actual feces, and all of that and all the goodies that are actually in feces and everything else that dogs eat. So this was to make it very simple, but I also gave them this. I took another thing, and rather than a pyramid, I drew it as a square, divided it up, and pointed out that it's variable and variable on the season in its variable on what's available because we achieve a balance over time. And so a tight and very specifically because I use that civils insignia diets very much for many reasons: polyphenols. But precisely because of their fiber content and ability to produce healthy bowels, the short-chain fatty acids are produced all that sort of thing. It assists the kidneys, and every dog in Western society, when it reaches middle age, has kidneys that are not functioning nearly as well as they might with the early tests of BU and creatinine and the questionable tests of SDMA. But what's it called? Yeah, yeah. Well, the stma does give an earlier indication, but it could also indicate other things. But anyway, it doesn't matter because they're all deteriorating in dogs fed this way. So it doesn't matter. So, we increase the vegetables for various reasons: their protective effects, fiber attacks, and fermenting ability. And, of course, the bacteria, when they ferment, have to get their nitrogen and produce their protein from somewhere. And guess what they dragged out of the bowels, sorry, out of the bloodstream, and it bypasses the kidneys, and it makes the perfect kidney diet. All these things are variable, and everybody wants to put a number on it. And there's no such thing as a number that works. Every job is different, and every diet is other. But you can measure things like BU and creatinine because they're pretty sensitive once the kidneys are wrecked, to 65 75%. So, then, you find the highest level of protein that you can put in to keep the BU and creatinine at the right level. And, you know, without going into great detail, it's variable. And that's the question variable in amount and, of course, variable in what you feed in-season local variety as possible. And, of course, most of the time, you are relying on the happy bacteria and other organisms living on the vegetation you haven't sprayed with or with any pesticide. And it's so-called Organic. Actually, organic is a carbon-based molecule. But that's another story. In the sense that it hasn't been wrapped up by human interference, the only interference we've done is to put it through a blender to make it like the gut contents of an animal. Except it has yet to become familiar, but we'll look to get to the fermenting. Stop there.

Julie Anne Lee  32:37

Yeah, but it makes so much sense. That's why when I say, like, I tell people if they're going and buying the same frozen raw food all the time, that whatever's in season they're eating, I get them to add. I'm a big bone tumor person, meaning I love my animals to eat bones, not just the percentage of bone in their food. So when I say 25%, on top of that would be bones. Right? So it's closer to where you are when you do it like that. But it, as you said, is diversity if they can go to a local market and pick up some vegetables that you still need to wash. And they haven't been sprayed. That's ideal sticking out through a food processor. Right. So yeah. It's just, you know, it it's hard to, it's hard to get, it's hard to, it's hard for many people to find, you know, things that haven't been sprayed or things that haven't been glyphosate and things like that.

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  33:49

It is a problem. So you have to wash your vegetables; that's a great time to add a probiotic mix of a beautiful assortment, as we're producing and as you're producing. Yeah, and yeah, fantastic.

Julie Anne Lee  34:03

Yeah. The nice thing, though, is that I think that when you're talking about the galaxy, my concern about just sort of, I mean, when you and I talk, it's entertaining because, you know, when I started, I was the first licensed holistic clinic in Canada and you know, went through the whole thing of, you know, when we talked about being acceptable by the vet Association, because I wrote an article on probiotics with dogs in 2001. And my concern is that we will not know everything. Right. I believe that we shoot ourselves in the foot by thinking that we can outsmart nature and that we're going to learn about nature.

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  34:50

understand 100%

Julie Anne Lee  34:53

Under percent, and the more we try to stick nature in a box, the more we're shooting ourselves in the foot; we need to go out and go, Okay? Trees, tell me what to do ground, tell me what to do like, like, I want to learn from you, I don't want to take what you have and stick it in my Western box. And that's what we're doing. And don't get me wrong because, you know, they're doing some remarkable independent studies about certain bacteria's health, helping with Alzheimer's and things like that. I'm not I'm not negating that significant research. But overall, as preventative prevention for chronic disease and having our bodies thrive, our dog's bodies thrive. We must throw our scientific ego aside and go; we will never know what nature does. And that's why, like my medicinal mushrooms, I won't use medicinal mushrooms that have been grown in a bag grown in a, you know, in a big auditorium, you know, growing in a big factory. Because if people think I'm nuts, but because mushrooms are brilliant, they're brilliant. And there is no way that we are going to be able to replicate what nature is teaching those mushrooms; there is no way that we're going to be able to replicate that intelligence of what a tree is telling those mushrooms or what the mushroom is ingesting and getting from that what they just assumed. So instead of going, Okay, I'm going to take everything from medicinal mushrooms, and I'm going to do this with them. And I'm going to do that, and then I'm going to make these like, you know, 50 million acre buildings, and I'm going to grow mushrooms in it because it's a multitrillion-dollar, you know, business right now. It's like, no, less is more like, let's learn how to grow them with nature. And I can guarantee you, you won't have to use it as much. Because what that mushroom holds from the wisdom of the bacteria from the soil like our mushrooms, their water, just with the water that comes from the forest with tons of,

The Value Of True Science 37:19

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  37:19

Julie, as you're talking, what you're talking about here? We are there, and you're talking about actual science, which is what you said; I have to throw science scientific ego to No, no. If you do that, you're talking about actual science; a fundamental science admits that we don't know everything, acknowledges that we never will, and is always prepared to ask questions, look, and observe. And our scientists today are so bound up in their techniques of double blinds, which you can never use with nutrition anyway, and focusing on one thing instead of looking at it as a cybernetic network of impossible complexity, which you have to and not attend to understand. But one understands it is that, and you will only get the benefits if you employ that. And that's what we've talked about. So we have our veterinarians today; the way they're trained, they need to be trained as scientists because they are not told to ask questions; they are said to follow a prescribed technical formula. Hence, they are technicians, so they claim they are scientists 200%. Wrong. I wanted to get on that particular bandwagon to discuss that. True. And then

Julie Anne Lee  38:39

The other component is that I was raised by a very environmentally strict Mama Bear mother. So, she protected the environment before it was fantastic. She taught us that we had to live in nature: we're going to go out in nature, we're living in nature's house; if we had a bear come into our house, then we would hope that the bear would be able to respect our home. But when we're out in the woods, or the bears were in the bear's house, and we don't get rid of things that we think are, you know, shouldn't be there to for our game. And as someone with an app for a natural animal supplement company. I've been in the natural health sector for years, like 32. And I feel like I am, I'm, I feel guilty. Like I don't personally feel guilty because I'm as anal as I possibly can. But for people in this industry, most companies don't even consider that. They need to think about where we are getting this from. What are we doing to the animals in the wild? What are we like? How are we? How, what are we doing? What are we doing to nature? Are we just taking and taking and taking? Well, take a look around. I mean, we are. So you would think by being in this sector and making our money in this sector, we'd all like get our ducks in a row, it'd be like we better be given back a little bit, you know like we better be paying attention, because we're making a living on nature. And if we are taking and taking and taking, like, to me, that's no better than pharmaceuticals. We're not. We're not better. We're not. We're not. We're not. I don't know. I mean,

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  40:40

we use we are using it as a pharmaceutical. We're not using it in the way it should be. There's no question about that. When, when that when that happens. Rob, can I ask Julie my other question? Tech? Yeah. I was talking, and we got real quick. Let

Rob Ryan  40:55

Let me do one thing first. So I asked you, please, hold no, no, hold your thoughts. I want to do one super quick something. And then we're going to go to your question. So everybody, what we're going to do is Julie's been nice enough to give we're going to give away one of her new routes, Wolf strain probiotics, to one of the live watchers now. So well, pretty soon. So, all you have to do to enter is go to the comments section, YouTube, and Facebook. To enter to win, just type pound sign, wolf in the comments. And then we'll be able to do the magic of technology. We're going to do a live drawing, and we'll do a random winner. Just hit the pound sign, a wolf, in the comments below. And that will enter you to win a free probiotic. And we'll get that sent over to you. All right, Ian, over to you.

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  41:47

Okay, Julie, where are you?

Julie Anne Lee  41:52

Now, there we go.

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  41:55

In our chat, Julie said you had a clearer vision of improving gut health before we came live there. Can you share that clear vision with me, Rob? And with the broader audience out there, please?

Julie Anne Lee  42:13

So, I think it's an evolution. I think that when we think about, I mean, I, I know that you, you have been part of this for a very long time to where there are all different levels of gut health. So you know, we see an eight-year-old dog that has had, you know, so much gut trauma, so many NSAIDs, so many drugs, so many crappy foods. So like that, like it's, it's God is just, it's just, it's just falling apart. And the other thing that I often say to people is that by the time you see it, like oh, well, you know, my dog, you know, my gut, my dog doesn't have any problems with its gut health with its gut health. And what I say is that by the time you see a symptom, whether that's a food allergy, a food reactivity, skin disease, an autoimmune disease, the list goes on and on. That means that there's been something brewing for a long time, and the guts have been trying, the body has been trying to keep itself in homeostasis, until we got to so bad that you are seeing all of these symptoms coming as a cause.

The Importance Of Diversity In The Diet 43:43

Julie Anne Lee  43:43

So, when I look at gut health, I look at it as a path to evolution. And I feel like for me, the more diversity, and the more I can get through what I'm doing, that can mimic. The end goal is to mimic what a gut would have looked like. I'm going to say even 200 years ago because I grew up on a farm not 200 years ago, but I grew up on a farm, and when I was a kid, and our dogs were eating rabbits and groundhogs and mice, and whatever, we had mostly Collie crosses on our farm. Those dogs weren't; they lived till they were 16 years old. Right? Like, they weren't dying when they were seven. They weren't getting cancer when they were babies; they ate. They ate species, a species-appropriate diet, and other stuff my grandma would make them. They never had processed food ever had processed food. And I feel like that's my goal was probiotics. My goal with the probiotics research is not to get too clinically scientific by going back, like finding the prebiotics that would help to work like food. To be more powerful, so that it can help them faster, right? They can, that we can get movement faster without causing, like I said, detoxification. So, it's why I used the Turkey Tail as a prebiotic. So, my goal is to talk about species-oriented food every time I talk. Always. Right. So I don't believe that adored beast is the or the, or the probiotics that I'm producing or formulating or creating, or the prebiotics, even the be-all and end-all of everything. So it's like, it's like, a species-oriented diet, and then adding from a pre and probiotic perspective, bacteria that they wouldn't be getting, especially urban dogs like my dogs eat more cow poop and horse poop and deer poop and rabbit poop. And you could imagine so. So, I feel like my dogs are very healthy from that perspective. But a dog living in a city, in the middle of New York, in the middle of urban, can't find that feces to find that stuff. So I'm trying to create different kinds of probiotics that will colonize and be able to give dogs that fingerprint of what they would normally have, the kinds of bacteria, and the kinds of prebiotics that they would normally be getting a long time ago. So that's my goal. And if a dog is sick, you know, Rob, you did ask me about, like, Well, what about the dog probiotic? And what about the species dog probiotic? And what about all the other probiotics that I have? I feel like there is no one thing for every dog. There's just there, and it's not this blanket statement; we see pitchers come in. And I'm sure you guys have dogs with no hair, right? The next step is if they will be euthanized because they've been on a topic or been on PrEP; they've been on the whole gamut. They've been on, you know, protein, like they're just becoming allergic to every protein every three months. Like they're, they're running out of proteins. So, in that case, because animals are my life, I want to try and do two things: I want to support that person to see a fast enough difference so that when they go to their vet, their vet won't be able to say or do anything. From a negative perspective, this will take too long for your animal to suffer. You're being, you know, unkind to your animal so, so I look at different ways of gut health in different stages of gut trauma, but the result, so we may start with something that's got like a formula that has like slippery elm and marshmallow root and DGL, and things like that. So that we can try and create the healing of the gut. And I also have a product that helps to decrease scarring. Because sometimes you see these poor guys that are sick, we're talking sick dogs here now that are sick. When that gut heals, it heals with so much scarring, but it winds up with similar things to IBD because it still can't absorb its nutrients. So we put homeopathic remedies into some kits that were something called Fire Cyanea minute, which is a mustard seed. Mustard Seed helps break down scarring so that as the tight junctions start to heal, they don't heal with as much scarring. So, for me, gut health ranges from the sickest animal you could imagine and moves it forward so that it doesn't cause harm and that the dog is feeling better; its quality of life is better right from the get-go. They're not having, you know, detox and on detoxing and stuff, go to the end of being able to create, as I said, the fingerprint of, of things, more species, ancient ancestral bacteria, and prebiotics to help prevent chronic disease, because, you know, but and I also say, you know, like stress, right, like, like, you know, I say to people, if you don't have any money, it costs you nothing to love your dog and take it out. For a walk without your cell phone, the right to engage with your dog, to look at your dog, to pet your dog, to play with it all affects our gut and their gut levels, everything. So my vision is to align myself with people like you and educate people as much as I can about not falling into the trap of these commercialized pet foods having probiotics in them, not falling into that thing about, you know, you know, well, this specific strain is just for this and this specific strain, like, we have to stop compartmentalizing natural health because it then it's no more. It's not natural anymore.

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  50:44

Okay, yeah. Well, that's fantastic, Julia; I'm now going to ask Rob for his vision because he came to me with a vision. And you two are very much aligned. So, Rob, can I hear your vision?

What Is Your Vision For The Company? 51:00

Rob Ryan  51:00

Oh, sure. That was beautifully said. So my vision is to do it; I've looked at the world in the supplement space, both humans and dogs. And we've created we've traded off health for convenience in many cases. And when I started making this fermented product for dogs, that I was, I was making it for Gus for his gut health and repair; I realized that we could make it convenient by just freeze-drying it and making it the right way. But we wouldn't sacrifice anything. With freeze drying, we've frozen, you know, a whole natural food; we've frozen it in time and preserved it beautifully naturally. So I thought, wow, I can conveniently provide this to people without sacrificing anything good about it; that was great for us. And I'll say, you know, this isn't, this isn't about us, this show. But you know, God, so many things you've said will resonate with me after we hang up on this call. But I want to follow up with you because it has inspired me. We have a couple of things: you've said we don't wash our products.

Specifically, we only source from organic farms. That's all additive. And we use high-quality prebiotics, like artichoke, dandelion, and beets. But all of these things have multiple purposes, and we see each of these ingredients is a functional food that serves many masters, and they work many different jobs. And so what Gussy's Gut is we're trying to, we're not looking to be a therapeutic. I point people to your company and other specific probiotics, if they should ever, and vets to look into those therapeutics and help these sick dogs. Well, where we want to be is a convenient gut health and maintenance supplement that is in the same category as your vegetables, but ours are just optimized vegetables. And so it's just great to be on with you. And you know, you're doing such unique and memorable work in the gut space. And with this, you know, you've got this. You've got a product that can work like some of the more traditional, excellent probiotic companies, but you've got it from nature and from a natural with a natural perspective, which is super cool.

Julie Anne Lee  54:08

Yeah.

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  54:10

And can I ask you this question about that? And I don't know what you're about to say. But we haven't asked you a particular question: where do you see this wolf strain in the spectrum of dogs? Canine health? Can you? How would you see it being used?

Rob Ryan  54:31

Let's hold off quickly because that is huge, and I have ten questions I haven't been able to ask. Let's do a quick drawing for free, and then we'll come to that question. Okay, Julie? Sure. Yeah. All right. Cool. This is the first time I've ever done this. So bear with me, everybody. But we will do it if you've just put in a hashtag. I saw a couple of people commenting from the UK. They're using a different it's the it's another symbol. For the hashtag, ours is the four strikes, so use the pound sign hashtag. However, you call it in the UK. I'm sorry for the confusion. Put that in the comments, and we'll enter you in right now. It doesn't just take one super quick second. Here we go, all right.

Rob Ryan  55:22

here we go, all right, everybody, you're ready. So, we have ten entries using the pound sign Wolf. It is your last second to get in a comment for pound sign Wolf. Ready? Let's draw here.

Rob Ryan  55:46

because he's got better, not when and Ross. All right. And you've got the free will to get your information, and we'll get you that. That free bottle. So congratulations. All right. Now, back to your back to the broadcast and the question here.

Julie Anne Lee  56:07

So what was your Do you want to repeat your question? 

How The Wolf Strain Can Be Used Therapeutically Prophylactically 56:13

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  56:13

Sure, it's a perfect robot. I don't. I just remembered that I need to put my entry in. But it wouldn't we got to Australia. Anyway, our customers people should be more vigilant.

Julie Anne Lee  56:22

Something different to you.

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  56:27

Julie, I want to know how you see the wolf strain being therapeutically prophylactically. What's your vision for this wolf pressures in canine health today,

Julie Anne Lee  56:43

It will be able to add a specific bacteria that they're just not going to get anywhere else. You know, they're not, they're not going to get that fingerprint, that sort of DNA, from their ancestors. In food, they won't be able to get it in any other probiotic on the market. So for me, my vision, my hope, my dream, whatever you want to call it, is that somehow we can implant that resilience. We can implant bacteria from their ancestors that might shift things, you know, with chronic disease, if people are following other stuff. I'm not saying like, you know, you're, you know, vaccinating them every year, and you're using all the flea and tick stuff, and you're doing all of this stuff. It's going to, you know, make all of the all of the difference. But the just introducing that fingerprint, suitable, introducing that DNA raising that, that that that energy of what they came from, I'm hoping it's going to make a big difference.

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  58:09

Have you introduced it to any dogs that are there as well? Or have you been sick?

Julie Anne Lee  58:15

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. We've been using.

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  58:18

a quick overview of what you saw.

Julie Anne Lee  58:22

I used it on one dog, so that I will tell you this one first. Because I find I want to always talk about this one, because, you know, we have people going, Oh, is it going to make them aggressive? Like a wolf? Is it going to do this? Is it going to do that? Like, I know, I know. I used it on a dog with allergies, but it was also quite aggressive and a bit testy. And the first thing that changed was his emotional state. That's the first thing that changed. He was calmer, as he had less separation anxiety. He had it was remarkable for me because I didn't, I wasn't expecting that I was so focused on his, you know, on his itching and things like that, that I didn't expect that to happen first. But it made sense for me. Because I think part of why he was itching is because he was so highly stressed, because he was, you know, his cortisol levels were probably through the roof. And I just thought it was fascinating. But we've used it for sort of chronic IBD. We've used it with, you know, even dogs with arthritis that I have got that we've been trying all other. I'm not saying it's used for arthritis, but has a strong anti-inflammatory response. Like this is what I, you know, what's remarkable is Through the studies that we did, like we don't, we don't manipulate the studies, it's so fascinating to see what comes from it. And then the immune modulation responsiveness is extreme. So when I stand back, and I go all these dogs that are on immune suppressive drugs, right, it's like, but this is half the dogs that we see, this is like three-quarters of the dogs that we see, and this bacteria can immune modulate. So,

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  1:00:36

Do you know what you mean by immune modulation? Julie's? Yes.

Julie Anne Lee  1:00:40

So if the, if the body starts to become overly reactive, right, so, when we look at Cushing's, or we're looking at any immune autoimmune diseases, which we see so much in dogs, I think, I honestly believe that torn cruciate ligaments are immune-mediated. And, I genuinely believe, I mean, I did a long time ago; I went and did a physical rehab program because my hospital had a full rehab center. Many of the surgeons were on the same page about when they opened them up; they didn't look like acute injuries; there was a deconstruction of breaking down of the tissue for a long time. And you know, every dog now is tearing their cruciate ligaments and every dog, you know, so many dogs that you do you do surgery on one, and what do they say more than 60%?

The Ability Of Probiotics To Modulate Immune System 1:01:40

Julie Anne Lee  1:01:40

It's going to the next blow. That's not it. That's not injury anymore. That's that that's some chronic inflammatory disease process. So when we did the study with the strains, it showed that it could modulate, which means that if the immune system starts to get too high, it brings it down. If it starts to go too low, it brings it up.

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  1:02:03

The word is normalizing.

Julie Anne Lee  1:02:06

Yes, yes. Thank you. Yes. Yeah, it helps. Homeostasis helps to normalize and balance the immune system. So if it, if it's going viral, or bacterial, and how it helps to bring it up, if it goes too high, and helps to support an autoimmune disease, it helps to bring it down. And that's the other thing about how many people are getting into the pet supplement industry that need that understanding. And they're like, oh, it, you know, it increases the immune system and increases the immune system. It's like, we don't want the immune system to improve.

We don't like it or try to bring it down. Right. It's that misunderstanding. It's like many companies jumping on the bandwagon when they've never had the experience of working with it. When I saw that, I was super excited because I thought, will it help animals modulate that because I believe a bacteria is missing? I do like it. I know many animals that haven't been vaccinated or been on raw food for a long time. And they're still getting autoimmune diseases, and they're still getting cancers. They're still like, there's something, and I feel like they're missing that genetic bacteria, that ancestral bacteria that helps to educate, let's use that word, helps to inform the gut,

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  1:03:48

helps to have another very strongly related question to that. Have you looked at the faces of a dog with the wolf strain and seen whether it persists or changes over time? We have.

Julie Anne Lee  1:04:05

We've done in vitro, in vivo, and live studies. We do know that one thing that we do know for sure, which is, again, many probiotics; we are still determining if it goes where it needs to go, right like so. So if you're using lactose bacillus, like we see that they work, don't get me wrong. I used regular probiotics in my vet hospital and formulations for a long time. We know they work. We see the changes, and we see the differences. It's not. I use at least 14 strains. First, I always use many ways to get as much diversity as possible. But none of the probiotics I purchased to make the products I use in that hospital did. Gastric viability, right? Right, so we know that your gut differs from your dog's regarding acidity. So, this is the first time anyone ever researched to know. Does it stay viable in the city? Are these human probiotics the ones we get from companies that create probiotics? Do we know that they even stay viable at the acidity rate of a dog's gut? Do they go and colonize in the large intestine, which is where they're supposed to go? So we did that study. So we didn't

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  1:05:30

worry about the acidity of the stomach? I'm assuming you've got that wolf strain in, but I wonder whether that strain persists. Or if it changes over time as bacteria do?

Julie Anne Lee  1:05:44

Yeah, I don't want to. We did a study that showed that it stayed viable when the animals in the live survey ingested it and when they defecated it. So it didn't die; they call it remain it could procreate. So we did

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  1:06:06

that we're wondering if this is a benefit. On a broader scale, it would be wonderful to get it. It may not stay within the synthetic food population that may remain within the raw-fed population. If they can then breed, it would be wonderful to have a stable bacterial species within most rule-fed animals today because that would be the closest to the wild. This would be a significant stabilizing influence on health over time, and it will become more common within the population of dogs that we know today.

Julie Anne Lee  1:06:54

Yeah, that's my goal. That's my hope. That's why I used a different prebiotic so that it wasn't a modern prebiotic. We used A prebiotic very similar to what we did; we did this study with Turkey Tail for a year. We looked at the symbiotic relationship between the wolf strain and the prebiotics, specifically, and what postbiotic effects it had, with those two synergistic things of the wool strain and the turkey tails or prebiotic. So, we followed it to see what the post-biotic impact was. And it was it, I don't know, it's just, you know, when you're talking about the cosmos, it's like magic for me when I see stuff like that because I have this hypothesis, I have this thing that goes in my head that says, We've got to go back, we got to go back.

Still, when you see it happen and go, Holy man, look at what these two do together. This is incredible. It's exciting because it just reinforces that I'm not crazy. And it is all for my business partner and helps that I'm not crazy. And it strengthens my long-term goal, which is how we're doing things right now. I'm trying to like our mushroom, forest, and goal. So we've been doing it for two years. Our goal is that by the fourth year, we have a specific template that we can go to woodlot owners and say, here's this template: don't cut down your forest. Right? Don't Don't sell your forests for pulp and paper; don't just sell your forest off. You can make as much money or more doing this. So we're not only supporting dogs, we're supporting, you know, with Turkey Tail and whatever we're supporting our health. So we're keeping the environment in general. It's a much bigger project for me,

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  1:09:03

Julio has a lighthearted question. Let's see if we can grow this on truffles.

Julie Anne Lee  1:09:10

Would that be Oh? Are foreigners watching this? He's probably going to be like, oh, oh, no.

Supporting Regenerative Farming And Mushrooms 1:09:21

Rob Ryan  1:09:21

Well, that's great, Juliet. Another place we align is that we see ourselves being a conduit for, you know, excellent organic regenerative, biodynamic farming, supporting that. The regenerative farm we're supporting is the key to what we can do that will draw down carbon and help green the environment. It's one thing that is 100% for sure. If we created more regenerative farms, all that carbon would get sequestered. And it would be way more effective than some things we want to do in the future. But we have yet to determine if we'll ever get there. And so, we're using our business to support those farmers. And I'd love to hear what you're doing with mushrooms because we'll probably end up doing something very soon with mushrooms, and we believe in wild foraged mushrooms, farm-grown and naturally grown. And so it's perfect to hear about what you're doing there; I want to ask a fundamental question that still needs to be asked: which is your wolf strain? The Roots product has three wolf strains in it. Is that right? Okay, tell us a little bit about how that's made. We still need to address that.

Julie Anne Lee  1:10:54

Okay. So, for all of the species-oriented probiotics we have, we collect the feces, we decide, first of all, you know, what, what we're going to do. We collect the wastes, and then the bacteria is isolated. So let's say we will use photos for the dog one; we separated 11 and chose three based on the criteria of immune modulation, their ability to suppress pathogenic bacteria, and their ability to answer as an inflammation. So, there are criteria that each bacteria has to meet for us to even think about moving forward with it. And then it is fermented, it's isolated, it's put into a, it's almost like a, almost like a, I want to say a centrifuge was not centrifuged, it's, it is the back of the, the, oh, my God, I can't remember the name of the machine. Oh, that's okay. This one, I just went brain-dead. So it's ice, they're isolated, and then they're fermented, and they're grown. So that's, that's how we get it from from one stage to the next. But a lot of the process starts in the beginning isolation; it's a long process because out of 11 strains, all those 11 strains get put through the grinder to see which songs are the most beneficial to the criteria they must meet. Yep. Great. But it's, yeah, it's fascinating. And I can't wait; the routes will have so many kinds of probiotics and prebiotics that are very simple. So they're there, this, this line is going to be straightforward formulas, it's going to be one species and one prebiotic, and this species is going to be ancestral, it's going to be unique, it'll be, you know, depending on where the animals are from, to, I'm looking at all different places in the world. And then the prebiotics are going to be the same. They're going to be they're going to be, we won't use a prebiotic, that wouldn't match the probiotic. Because to me, that doesn't make sense. That wouldn't be what that animal eats naturally; what would be in that typography? Excellent, very simple, like what you were saying. It's like food, but it's not food. It's like one step up, like a functional, functional therapeutic product.

Rob Ryan  1:14:09

Great. We've gone about 15 minutes over our usual time, which is excellent. It's fine. But we'll end with one more question. And so get yours ready. All. I'll ask this last question. So, my previous question. So do you think, Julie, that wolves need probiotic supplementation? Wolves in the wild? No. Interesting.

Julie Anne Lee  1:14:36

No, I don't. I was when I was starting to do this. It's like, you know, some wolves. They're, they're 10 and 11 years old, and they're still having puppies. And some of these wolves can weigh 185 pounds. Yeah.

Rob Ryan  1:14:55

Right. And they're in there, and they're living in these extreme conditions. Talk about

Julie Anne Lee  1:15:00

Stress. And they're adaptable. Yeah, resilient, and they're, they're playful, and they're there. They have this unique magical nature about them, you know?

Rob Ryan  1:15:15

Yeah, resilience is.

Julie Anne Lee  1:15:16

I don't think that they do.

Rob Ryan  1:15:19

Yeah, I saw Ian was laughing. He liked my question.

Julie Anne Lee  1:15:30

The only thing wolves are missing is my living with them. I would love that. I shouldn't. I would. I'm missing the wolves aren't missing, but I'm missing.

Rob Ryan  1:15:44

All right. So what's your question?

When Will The Veterinary Profession Catch Up With Nutrition? 1:15:48

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  1:15:48

It's comprehensive in general, Judy; I wonder when the veterinary profession will catch up with nutrition and all of this stuff because it's the foundation with no backups for 799 days. I'll go. Computer

Julie Anne Lee  1:16:11

telling you to backup

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  1:16:12

backup is by that's another story. But I need to catch up on the fact that our profession, which claims to be a healing profession or something, recommends this awful food and has no vision of real food. I looked on the website of a company I can't name. I don't want to be sued. And it said one of the dangerous Foods was raw beet. HSC: Oh, if that's where our profession is now. It's like the medical profession when they say smoking is good for you. How do we change this profession of ours? How do we do this? Joe, do you have any idea?

Julie Anne Lee  1:17:08

You know what I think's happening right now? Because I can get super depressed about it, too. Right? Like I, I sit, and I just squirm when I see things, and I get depressed, and I get really like, when will this change?

Rob Ryan  1:17:25

But I made a probiotic. Yeah,

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  1:17:26

I do. Get a specific getting angry these days.

Julie Anne Lee  1:17:31

Yeah, yeah, soda. Why, but you know what I think's happening now, at least over here? Is that that? I think it's supposedly since COVID-19. More people have dogs, and more vets have nervous breakdowns; veterinary suicide is the highest of all professions. In America. Yeah. And, and I think it's because, um, I think right now, what's going to happen is the wait time to see that, and the, you know, you're in, and you're out because they're all being bought by big massive corporations. So it's not going to get worse, it's getting worse. It's not getting better because these corporations have one thing in mind. And it Yeah, and, and turning them into McDonald's. Right? By, you know, this is how much time you have. This is what you have to sell up. This is what you have to do. And I think that many vets are they're not stupid. And they and I believe that they have, you know, compassion, exhaustion, and I think it's going wrong right now. So I guess what's going to happen? Is that more of this information, like I'm writing a book about navigating your animal's life, like your health, their health, like how do you work with events? How do you become the person who says yes and no, and in whatever? And I think what's going to happen right now is that people aren't going to be able to get into vets, and their dogs are going to get sick, or their cats are going to get sick, and they're going too big, they're going to have to reach out and find alternatives. And the most accessible option is to look more natural, right? And from a perspective of books and going online, and it's the same with people, you go online now, and you can find a million do-it-yourself, ear infections, things, and whatever. More and more of that will have to happen because the vet industry is failing big time to have enough that they do. They don't have enough text, they don't have enough vets, and as Sad as that sounds, it is a perfect opportunity for people not to jump on the bandwagon, like, oh, yeah, it's a great business opportunity, that's not what I'm saying it's an excellent opportunity for education, it's a, it's a perfect opportunity to get as much that's why nothing that I do cost anything, right? Like, it's, it's like I tried to get it, it has nothing to do with products, it's just, it's just empowering people to make a choice. Because at the end of the day, there's still your dog and cat, and you know them better than any vet who will see them for 15 minutes. And I have some of my best friends who are vets, and I and I'm not, I'm not negating that, that, that we need vets. But I'm feeling like, you know what, they're going to need the support because they're burning out. And they aren't finding cures for chronic disease, and they're unable to help their patients, and they're going to come to a time where it's going to be like, I have to work with these people, not against them. And in big corporations are either going to go, there's always going to be this, there's enough sick animals out there for conventional medicine to continue to thrive, for people that will never, ever do anything but conventional. And the same holds with the natural side, and there are enough sick dogs, cats, and sick people to have everybody thrive. But I think our most significant thing is collaborating, not trying to squish each other out. Right and not trying, we have to, we have to step back. We don't have to do anything for me. I would dream that everybody would step back and do some things. Look at what we're doing to our environment in nature. I'm talking about anyone in the natural health care sector, people or animals, and it doesn't matter. Step back and go; what can we give back to what we're taking? And then when your heart opens with that, and you look at what we're at, how do we give back to nature, you automatically become more open to supporting each other in this higher vision, right, which is, for me, wildlife environment and animals, is not people figuring out people, I don't care about people. But you know,

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  1:22:35

you use some essential words: education, knowledge, empowerment, and giving people a choice. That's, that's what it's all about. And also cooperation between us all. Yeah. Then it comes to soil regenerative farming and

Julie Anne Lee  1:22:57

Regenerative forests, because, yeah, no trees in the oxygen, regenerative oceans, right, like we just came out with an oil that is a fermented seaweed that leaves the oceans alone. Right? Like, they're like we can't, like I've been supporting regenerative farming for a very, very, very long time. But what can we do to help the oceans? What do we do to help the forests, right? It's like everything: how do we and how do we look at protecting this? You know, so

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  1:23:34

the forest, the wonderful people in that forest, the forest trees?

Julie Anne Lee  1:23:39

Oh my God. It is it is it is so amazing.

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  1:23:42

Yeah. Were their roots down into the soil and they're talking to funghi and each other, it's

Julie Anne Lee  1:23:48

Other, it's phenomenal.

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  1:23:51

It's phenomenal.

It’s A Community, And We’re A Community 1:23:54

Rob Ryan  1:23:54

It's a community, and on that note about the way the veterinary profession is going, it's, you know, it's an excellent opportunity for us to remember that it's essential the type of vet you choose, it's that aligns with you, it's necessary, you have a perfect relationship with your vet, you shake your vets hand you look them in the eye, you know them just as much as it is that you know, your farmers these days that you know, your you know, your ranchers, you know, where you're getting your meat from grass-fed, organic or otherwise. These are the days where we're, you know, I think many ways we've become so you know, tech-forward and relied on Tech; I believe that one of the cool things I see happening is people are coming back to more ancestral methods, and learning, you know, the, the source of the seed where things are coming from. We talk a lot about, you know, you eat. Your dog is eating your cat eating. Seeing what that animal has eaten, you know, and all of this is important. So, it's an evolution; we'll all know we have and must take our time. You know, Julie, you've been on this march for a long time. I've been on this march for a long time. Ian has been on this march for a long time. If you're new to this conversation, take it, be inspired by it, and let it take some time to sink in. And, you know, align yourself with good people, people that are doing, you know, right by the planet, right by your dogs, and right by you. So, Julie, thank you so much. This has been a great, great, great hour and a half.

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  1:25:39

It's been lovely to hear from you, Julie. Fantastic. Yeah,

Julie Anne Lee  1:25:43

It's nice to see you too. I wish I didn't want to. We all had more time to sit and wait because it didn't. But everything is like you're constantly learning. We learn from learn from each other or con. And even the learning part is just the, you know, the friendship, right? And what comes out of the company and what comes out of you get excited. You get excited and inspired, and your brain starts thinking of all these different things.

Rob Ryan  1:26:14

Yep, podcasts were invented to give people an excuse to talk with their friends more.

Julie Anne Lee  1:26:21

Oh, yeah. Works well.

Rob Ryan  1:26:24

Well, great. With that. Go, everybody, to Julie's site, which is adored by beast.com. And you can look at the new wolf strain there under other products. And thanks so much again, Julie; it is great to be with you.

Julie Anne Lee  1:26:39

Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it. Thank you for all you're doing to excellent.

Rob Ryan  1:26:45

Thank you. Thanks, everybody, for being on. Have a great day. Bye

Dr. Ian Billinghurst  1:26:49

Bye